Interview with Amne Sulieman Jabril

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Interview with Amne Sulieman Jabril
2013
TAPE 1
Anme Sulieman Jabril: Jabril Suleiman, I was born in Shatila in 1952, and I was grown
up till 18 in the camp in Shatila, I studied in UNRWA schools, the preparatory phase,
and then I went to secondary, private secondary school, and then I studied in Beirut
Arab University and through these years in 1967, when I was in the preparatory
phase, you know, 1967 war took place and you know, in this phase... our
consciousness started to be awake and you know, through the school there was a
militant who came and started to talk about the war as Palestinians you know, we
were of course struggling for the right of return for our territories in 1948, but after
this war you know, and after the people were scattered all over the world especially
in Jordan and Lebanon, we agreed together in order to make to be volunteers in
order to collect food and cloths and these things. From that phase when I was grown
up, I worked with the student union for a while and then I became a member in
Fateh movement and my organization chose me to be in the women general union
of Palestinian women, and from the 70s till now I am working in the general union of
Palestinian women, you know, I was a member in a local committee in Shatila camp
and then I became a member in the area committee, and after in the administrative
committee, and now I am a member in the general secretariat of the general
women's union. And I am responsible about our union in Lebanon, Lebanon branch,
from that time till now, I am still working among women and gatherings in Lebanon,
of course, as I told you, our main goal is to liberate our land and to build our
democratic state with Jerusalem as a capital, of course we witnessed so many
battles and so many wars in 1975, 1976, during the Lebanese civil war and it was a
difficult time where women union worked a lot through its committees all over
Lebanon and our headquarter was like a very active cell, women were providing
people with food and fighters also. We were helping people, first aiding people, we
made a list of our blood groupings you know, in order to give blood in any time
someone needs blood from the wounded people. It happened that Tai El Zaatar
camp was fallen and it was really a catastrophe, were 30, 35 thousand people were
displaced, we worked with the places where displaced people were living especially
in Beirut and later came the 1978 Israeli invasion to Lebanon and through Dalal Al
Mughrabi military operation, that Israel invaded south Lebanon, women were
working on all levels in mobilizing people and relieving the displaced families, and
then came the Israeli invasion to Lebanon where it was a big war. Also, women
union was coordinating with Lebanese women's organizations in order to relief
those people and families, because most of our people in south Lebanon, especially
in the camps and gatherings left that area and most of them came to Beirut and it
was over populated from the Lebanese and the Palestinian and we worked the last
in... not only with women but all categories because you know people left their
houses and there was a great number of missed people, martyrs and wounded
people, and you know, Saida area, especially Ein El Hilweh camp, which is the biggest
camp was called at that time, women kingdom, because all men were in prison, in
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Ansar prison, the Israeli prison, and even men over 14 years were in prison, and Ein
El Hilweh was severely bombed and most of the women started to rebuild the camp.
Because it was called women's kingdom because women rebuilt the camp after it
was, before it was a yard, because the destruction was so ugly and was so big you
know... we women started to work and to hold the responsibility of the family, this
was not new for the Palestinian women because even after 1948, the Palestinian
women held the responsibility of the family and they was the first supported to the
family and at that time even you know, we know that women started to travel to
Arab countries in order to help their families, this helped women in order to be... to,
to be members in different parties and organization and in 1965, you know, the
women the Palestinian women established the general union of Palestinian women,
and from that time and on, Palestinian women are working inside and outside
Palestine on involving women in the general affairs and to participate in the
Palestinian march to liberate Palestine and you know to build our democratic state,
this is beside the social work to empower women and help them be an effective
member in the Palestinian march. Of course, now we held our congress in Palestine
in 2009, and it was the first conference where all Palestinian women from in inside
Palestine and outside Palestine meet for the first time, it was really impressive and
you know, and it was the first time where we go to Palestine, it was the first time we
go to Palestine and it was the first time I see Palestine. It was really a historical day
to all Palestinian women all over the world met, it was really different moment no
body can express it, till now I cant express that moment because it was a mixture of
belonging of emotions, I can't explain it very well you know, because I couldn't
believe as all Palestinian that we were in Palestine at that moment and I stayed for 5
days kept dreaming that I am in Lebanon, that I am in Jordan. I couldn't believe that I
am in Palestine you know... as a women's union, after our existence in Palestine,
women union took many steps in order to develop and to the situation of the
women's union. And we presented our document on the Palestinian rights and we
can note that Palestinian women reached to many position and you know, we have a
great number in the legislative council and we have a great number in the
Palestinian national council, we have 5 ministers, women ministers, we have a great
number also of women representing in the women's councils in Palestine, but in the
meantime we can note also, that we are till deprived of many rights but this is you
know due to the Israeli occupation of the land, because we are a state under
occupation, and you can imagine how Israel is still stealing the land and building
settlement and every morning we wake up to hear about new unites of settlements
although Palestinians give their maximum efforts to push the peace process to reach
practical steps but Israel is not committed to any resolutions, and you of course are
hearing about the negotiations Israel is still out the UN resolutions and it turns all
backs to all UN resolutions which needs a big pressure on Israel in order to be
committed to the peace process, to the UN resolutions you know. You know that
now there is a chance for nine months to reach for a solution but it seems we are,
we got used to the Israeli attitude in rejecting all resolutions and by force they are
trying to practice their policy on all Palestinians and you know there are still about 6
thousand or 9 thousand detainees in prisons, of course we were happy when we
heard about the 26 detainees who were released 5 days ago and we spoke with
some of them who were sentences, or were in prison for 30 years you know, and
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there are still thousands of detainees who are asking for freedom, Israel and its
policy is you know, is trying to steal all the land and you can see yesterday for
example, I heard that 14 percent of the Jerusalem territory are left for Palestinians
which is nothing, They are trying to Jewdize all the Palestinian places, cities and
villages, I don't think that there is pressure form the UN or from America. America is
not just partner in the peace process, they support Israel in all possibilities and all
support for Israel and the EU also is not working in a way where they can represent a
pressure, or form a pressure on Israel, of course they are working now on boycott on
production of the settlements. But sorry to say they are about 520 companies were
they work with Israelis. Of course Palestinians give peace process a chance to
achieve our goals you know, depending on the different agreements but I think the
Palestinian authority will now go to UN bodies where they can complain and
condemn Israel in all its practices, and this is what makes Israel so scared about it
you know. But Palestinians haven't any alternatives; we have to go for the UN
bodies, perhaps it maybe a reason where they can an end for this occupation. On
concerning our work in Lebanon we are trying in order to support our Palestinian
families to empower them and to solve some of their problems, big problems,
because refuge is a very humiliated factor in the lives of the Palestinians after 65
years, Palestinians are still living in difficulty and they are trying to reshape their life
in order to come back to Palestine and we think as Palestinian refugees most of our
problems will be solved once we are on our homeland in our homeland. In our work
we try to work with all categorize of our people in the different camps and the
gathering, we work on of course mobilizing women to be full participants and active
in the Palestinian march and activate her role to be a full partner, you know, we are
working through 2 programs with Norwegian peoples aid on empowering women
and we work on a program combating violence against women and we are trying to
mobilize our women and empower them in order to face the daily battle of life
which is so difficult in the camps and gatherings. We are working on a program for
pre school education, we have a great number of kindergartens and nurseries and
we have parents committees in every camp where we follow up the situation of our
children and we have a listening center for violated women and children, where we
can you know, communicate with them and try to help their problems health and
psychological problems. We work on physiotherapy center for disabled children and
elders, we have also a special education center where we try to, sorry... a special
education center where we try to know you know, all problems of children and we
have a center for embroidery in order to find a job opportunities for women, and in
the mean time to preserve our inheritance, we have a micro credit program where
we can also, try to find job opportunities for women and men, we have four projects
because, you know, Palestinians in Lebanon don't have their minimum civil rights in
Lebanon, for that we have a big problem in employment, of unemployment, and in
this programs we try to support poor families in order to make small businesses
where they do live in dignity and support their families, we are working on all levels
and we work also with... we have great number of public libraries, where we make
several activities for children and young men, we have youth centers also to
empower youth and to communicate with the camp and the people in the camp, I
mean we are working in all these issues in order to empower our people and try to
solve some of their problems, because we cant pretend that we solve all problems of
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the Palestinians in Lebanon, in general our people in Lebanon have so many
problems in the health issues, level, educational levels and we have the problem of
the future you know, people, after 65 years you know, do not find any horizon in
front of them, Israel it is still turning its back to all UN resolutions, they don't want to
discuss the refugee issues, and concerning the negotiations, our president Mahmoud
Abbas assured on our stated through the 1967 territories with Jerusalem as a capital
and the right of return to Palestinian according to 194. In this case you know, I cant
say that although we are human being and sometimes we feel despair and... but
Palestinians are controlled by hope you know, and they want to continue to solve
this problem, because you know, we will find ourselves in our homeland you know.
Even Palestinians who, are rich and living in a very good living standard need to have
their state. You know, from this point we can say that Palestinians will never give up
and will continue to build our state and to live as all human being of the world. We
want to be normal in our homeland, we want to breathe we want our borders and
our sky and land, as al peoples of the world, this is the longest revolution in the
world, we are the only people, under occupation, we are not asking for the
impossible, this is our land and we want to come back, even our children, you know,
we educate them that we have our land, Palestine, and we want to come back and
they know everything about the villages, their villages, they know what they do plant
and what every city and village is famous of, we try to plant in our children that we
are Palestinians, we were uprooted from our land and we have a nice country, and
really we have a very beautiful country, and we want to be as all peoples of the
world. We are not asking for the impossible you know, but this world is so
oppressive you know, and they are talking about human rights and the international
legitimacy and... but concerning Palestinians I don't think that we are on the agenda
of any country. I mean sometimes of course they soliderate with us and they can be
sympathized with us, but in general it is not clear that they are really...
TAPE 2
ASJ: ... trying to form a pressure on Israel in order to withdraw, and on the contrary
Israel is going on the building settlements, every morning we wake up on thousands
of unites are going to be built in our land. Where can we build our state as
Palestinians you know? We are accused of terrorism, this is the climax of the Israeli
terrorism you know, when Palestinians fighting, of course, it took us along time in
order to absorb the idea of peace, which peace they are talking about it? It took us
along time, we are convinced that peace is a humanitarian value, and we want to live
together, but Israel, is not working on peace process, they are destroying the peace
process every day in their barbarous policy on all levels, they are stealing the land,
stealing the water, still detaining our militants, they are... everyday we wake up to
hear settlers are destroying the trees, everyday, they cut 100, 150 olive tree, which
is the source of living for most Palestinian families you know. This is the climax of
terrorisms... Mai, Mai.. Kholoud... Sorry.
Of course, I lived so many experiences with my sisters in the organization, and in
1985you know we were besieged in Shatila camp, and it as a very bitter experience,
where we were taking care of women and children in the camp and it was besieged
for three years, and you can imagine a small spot, the camp is so small and it was
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destroyed three times, and we were rebuilding it, imagine through a siege you are
building... many people were killed, many people were wounded and a great number
of missed people and this is after the Israeli invasion to Lebanon and it was bitter...
we sometimes we try to forget it because it was a bitter, and it was from the
Lebanese, some Lebanese militia and Syrians you know... people ate of cats at that
time, because it was besieged for a long time, women were representing the security
guarantee for the camp I order to prevent fighters and militias from killing each
other, we are still dealing with the results of those battles and Palestinians are
human beings, many women, mothers lost three or four persons in the camp wars, it
was very ugly and barbarous, I mean, people are still living the consequences of that
phase even the Israeli invasion to Lebanon, and the daily life you know of
Palestinians is so painful, because basics of any human being is not available, in our
work and activities we try as much as possible to reduce the suffering of our people,
we do not pretend to solve all, but we try our best in order to give a for example a
secure atmosphere for our children to grow up in a semi peaceful life, where they
can be sane and really human beings as all children of the worlds. We are trying our
best to secure this atmosphere, environment, a peaceful environment to live in a
normal life.
Nicola Pratt: Do you mind if I ask you some questions about when you were growing
up? When did you first become aware that you were Palestinian?
ASJ: a cause?
NP: Yes, a cause, a Palestinian cause, what was the first time you realized?
ASJ: when I was grown on living in a camp, this is a big question, it was a big
question, why do I live in this environment, why do I live in a camp? My family were
living in Palestine, they were enjoying their normal life, why? This was a question,
and after the 1967 war, you know... I was starting to ask myself and to see in front of
me, and there were also a group of women from Fateh movement, who mobilized us
and took care of us, you know, and we have a great number of militants like, Jihan El
Hilo, Shadia el Hilo, Shadyah Habashna, Um Jihad, Salwa Abu Khadra... and there is a
great number of militants who took care of us and mobilized us in the beginning, I
think it was successful raising up, because the indication is that we continued till
now you know, and we gave all our lives and support for this cause.
NP: were your family afraid for you becoming...
ASJ: Of course, my family was so afraid in the beginning and they prevent us because
it was not familiar for us to join such activities, and I remember when I went to the
first camp to military training, you know, my family said you will not go and things
like that, because my mother was responsible about us and my father was in the
gulf, and she was responsible about our raising at that time and she prevented me
but I insisted you know, and then she accepted the idea and now she is a good
supporter for me to continue on this struggling of course, and my mother in 1968, I
mean 1975, 76, she was preparing food for the fighters and the families.
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NP: you mentioned earlier when you were in school, Fidaei?
ASJ: Yes, Fidaei?
NP: when they came to speak to you and your classmates about the Palestinian
struggle.
ASJ: Yes, Yes, but as I told you it was an event when the 1967 war started but later
on, I joined to their general union of Palestinian students and worked with them, in
voluntary work, we were digging shelters and we were visiting the Fidaeiah and the
military bases and then when I was grown up I became a member in the women
union and I stopped. From the 70s till now.
NP: Is the general union of Palestinian women, is a union for all women, not just
Fateh?
ASJ: All women, a framework of all women organizations, and in Palestine it is the
umbrella of all women organizations, and you know, the... our branch here is one of
the most active and we took the first prize in our first conference in Palestine.
NP: The prize was for all your contribution?
ASJ: Yes, for all our contributions because we built, oh, I did not tell you about our
association and social association for sponsoring orphans and widows and hardship
cases, we work a lot with the poor families and hardship cases, and we take care and
psychological support and social support.
NP: has the work of the union changed over time?
ASJ: yes, of course, we can say from, since 25 years till now, we built more
kindergartens and association, social associations, we built a number of public
libraries, we also opened so many classes, remediate classes for children who have
educational problems with the children and UNRWA schools, now we are working
also with displaced people Palestinians from Syria, they are about 50 thousand
people, they are distributed on all camps and gatherings, we take care of them, we
receive their children in our kindergarten, and the remediate classes we relief them
and secure them, sometimes money, cloths, food, we make, we also receive women
who have traumas and psychological problems, and children because there are so
many cases where they were exposed to suicide, I mean, really, it's a new
catastrophe concerning Palestinians, because they left everything, they lost their
men, their husbands and sons and daughters, and they lost everything what they
built through the 65 years. We are trying our best to relief those people. Our
ambassador in Lebanon Ashraf.
NP: Ah, Ok. Which one is he?
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ASJ: Ashraf. What were we talking about?
NP: you were talking about now working with the Syrian refugees and the
Palestinians.
ASJ: ah, I mean, we are trying our best in order to reduce their suffering you know,
because you know, most o them haven't any hope to come back and this bloody
[inaudible: 16:00]... you know. And many of them are thinking if immigration and
you have heard about the ships of death you know, and how many people sank and
died, because they are trying to go for a secure area where they can practice own
life as human brings, I mean this is the utmost ambition of Palestinians, and this is a
big problem, no body knows where it ends, no body knows where does it end. As a
women's union we are representing a referendum for all people because we worked
even with the non IDs people you know, who haven't any documents and we have
about 5 thousand families who have no passports or documents, the embassy, the
Palestinian embassy in Lebanon is trying to give them some guards, where they can
move, we are working on all levels even the health issues, we worked with UNRWA
and UNICEF on screening some diseases specially anemia concerning children and
women breast cancer and reproductive health, we are working on reproductive
health you know, with young people and the university students, we even worked on
environment, we planted some camps with trees, I mean, we are working on all
levels where we can, we try to find a normal environment where they can live.
NP: what is the most difficult...
ASJ: Sorryl
NP: What is the most difficult thing about your work?
ASJ: Of course, we have so may challenges you know, I told you, the main issue is the
future of the people, this is a big problem, we are living in Lebanon everyday we
have a scenario where Palestinians want to be transferred or settled down, and this
is a big problem concerning Palestinians because you know, all Palestinians who
were uprooted from Palestine weaved their life and shaped their lives to come back,
they never think of settling in Lebanon, and you know Lebanon is a very small
country and everyday we have a scenario of Palestinians, because there are some,
political parties in Lebanon who reject the Palestinian existence in Lebanon, and we
try you know, to have a normal relation with all parties in order not to interfere in
any political issue, we don't want to be settled in Lebanon, we don't want the
Lebanese passport, we don't want to interfere in any political issue, but we want to
live in dignity till we are able to go back to our land, this is what we want as
Palestinians in Lebanon, we are deprived of the basic rights in Lebanon and we have
a great number of unemployed people you know, we have a great number of
engineers, doctors, many qualified people who cant find any work, you can imagine
when a doctor works as a nurse or a staff nurse in a hospital, our engenders were
working in picking apples and oranges and the gardens and you know, we want to
live in dignity to work. Now, if you take any support it will not be the alternative
7


when you work and try to work. And in our work as a women's union, even through
the micro credit program we try to help most of those people. We try for example to
give loans for doctors to pen small clinic in the camp, he can't work, the doctor can't
work in Lebanon, but in camps they can work and we give so many loans for those
people to have loans in order to face the daily battle of life in order to support their
families and find job opportunities.
NP: is it difficult to find the funds, the grants, to meet all the needs of... as you said,
you said there is a great need amongst...
ASJ: yes, there is a great need, we have a great need, we have a big problem in
finance, we try to make proposals for different activities, but you know, it goes on
for 2 years or 1 year sometimes, and then its gone. For example, when we opened
the physiotherapy center for disabled children, we worked for 2 years, but when
they came from the EU to evaluate you know, they gave us 4 additional months to
continue and then... but after that we couldn't stop working with those for example
disabled children because we were having about 350 children in one camp. How can
you stop such a project you know, and you are taking care of the children and in this
project we worked with the whole family not only the children, we tried to empower
women how to deal with their disabled children in the houses you know. We were
making home visits and they come also to the center, we were doing them
recreational activities and we tried to greet them in their community, even in our
kindergarten we received so many disabled children in order to be as normal as
others I mean. We have you know, a financial problem and... but we are trying our
best in order to make self production, we pay for the fees of our membership n the
union, and through these fees we supported some camps with the micro credit
program, we are trying to think, but it is not easy for us to bring money in order to
continue in all our project. Now, UNICEF is a full partner with us, and we have now a
project for the displaced Palestinians from Syria, we received all children we have
about 1000 children through kindergarten and remedial classes and we employed
women displaced women from Syria to work also with those children, especially
teachers who were working in Syria.
NP: what do you like most about your work?
ASJ: What?
NP: What do you like? What makes you happier?
ASJ: Ah, what makes me happy is that I realized so many activities which help our
families in the camp you know, because these associations you know, when you
open a kindergarten you solve the problem of the child and the mother, and the
whole family, and when you work with the micro credit, you try to secure job
opportunities for men and women, and we have so many good and successful
examples for people who have nothing and they try to build their life and they
improve their way of living and even we give scholarships for young people who
want to continue their studying and they cant we try to give them a priority to pay
8


their university fees and we try to help those families, even we give sometimes... we
have a special loan where we give it to people in order to change their way of living,
we give them loans to renovate their houses to buy a refrigerator or help them in
their marriage parties, we are working on these issues in order to reduce a little bit
their suffering.
NP: and you are happy to see the change?
ASJ: of course, of course, I... my heart is getting bigger when I see a family you know,
was in a situation and turned to a better situation, of course I feel very proud and
happy about it, of course.
NP: Do you think that it's easier now for young women to become active in society
than before?
ASJ: Of course, of course, the situation of Palestinians in general is difficult in
Lebanon and people ask for work and you know that Palestinians were... the carriers
of Phds in the world, but of course though the consequent battles and wars of
course, we were retreated, but till now, Palestinians doing their best in order to send
their children to schools you know, we are, trying our best to find a standard were
can we deal with children, because children are the people of the future, and when
you build the child in a very scientific and positive raising up, you will have a treasure
in the future, we always think of this point of view where we can take care of the
children in order to be the ammunition for our future.
NP: Do you have daughters?
ASJ: No, I am not married. I am not married but I think that all children are my sons
and daughter because though my work I think there is a very good relationship,
social relationship with the woman and the children and most whom I worked with, I
feel that...
TAPE 3
ASJ:... I feel that my nephews and nieces are my daughters and sons I do not have
this problem I mean, thanks god.
NP: So, you been playing the role for people that Um Jihad played for you, you can
be like a role model for...
ASJ: I don't think there is a copy of any person to any person, but I think I earned a
lot from those symbols and you know, for month ago we lost our president, she is
Isam Abdulhadi, and she is a big militant, she was a poet and writer, and she was a
militant, and was the president of our union in 1965, and she has a long, long history
of struggling for the rights of the Palestinians, I think that we have Fatima Bernaewi,
the first captive and she is now living in Gaza, she is a good militant, and we have a
great number of militants, Palestinian symbols you know.
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NP: is there anything that I haven't asked you that you think is important to ask me?
ASJ: I think that you know, as Palestinian refugees we are trying to have the right
you know to live in our homeland to have a state to have an identity to have a
[passport and to breathe the air of our land to live in a normal way as our great poet
Mahmoud Darweesh said, we don't want to be hero's we don't want to be "Dahaya"
what is it?
NP: Victims?
ASJ: victims, we don't want to be victims we want to be normal people were can we
live and the peasant go to its land, cultivate and plant, where women can also
deliver their children in hospitals not on check points, we want to see the red color
in roses not in blood. This is want, what do we want. This is what we want.
NP: Hopefully one day.
ASJ: In gods willing, and we need the international community and the legitimacy
you know, take its real role in putting pressure on Israel because I think it is the only
cancer in the area where they are trying to plant fear, terrorism, destruction, you
know on our people. We want to a pressure in order to push Israel to really work for
peace, which guarantee our rights as Palestinian people, this is what we want. This is
what we only want.
NP: of course you deserve.
10

Interview with Amne Sulieman Jabril
2013

TAPE 1

Anme Sulieman Jabril: Jabril Suleiman, I was born in Shatila in 1952, and I was grown up till 18 in the camp in Shatila, I studied in UNRWA schools, the preparatory phase, and then I went to secondary, private secondary school, and then I studied in Beirut Arab University and through these years in 1967, when I was in the preparatory phase, you know, 1967 war took place and you know, in this phase… our consciousness started to be awake and you know, through the school there was a militant who came and started to talk about the war as Palestinians you know, we were of course struggling for the right of return for our territories in 1948, but after this war you know, and after the people were scattered all over the world especially in Jordan and Lebanon, we agreed together in order to make to be volunteers in order to collect food and cloths and these things. From that phase when I was grown up, I worked with the student union for a while and then I became a member in Fateh movement and my organization chose me to be in the women general union of Palestinian women, and from the 70s till now I am working in the general union of Palestinian women, you know, I was a member in a local committee in Shatila camp and then I became a member in the area committee, and after in the administrative committee, and now I am a member in the general secretariat of the general women’s union. And I am responsible about our union in Lebanon, Lebanon branch, from that time till now, I am still working among women and gatherings in Lebanon, of course, as I told you, our main goal is to liberate our land and to build our democratic state with Jerusalem as a capital, of course we witnessed so many battles and so many wars in 1975, 1976, during the Lebanese civil war and it was a difficult time where women union worked a lot through its committees all over Lebanon and our headquarter was like a very active cell, women were providing people with food and fighters also. We were helping people, first aiding people, we made a list of our blood groupings you know, in order to give blood in any time someone needs blood from the wounded people. It happened that Tal El Zaatar camp was fallen and it was really a catastrophe, were 30, 35 thousand people were displaced, we worked with the places where displaced people were living especially in Beirut and later came the 1978 Israeli invasion to Lebanon and through Dalal Al Mughrabi military operation, that Israel invaded south Lebanon, women were working on all levels in mobilizing people and relieving the displaced families, and then came the Israeli invasion to Lebanon where it was a big war. Also, women union was coordinating with Lebanese women’s organizations in order to relief those people and families, because most of our people in south Lebanon, especially in the camps and gatherings left that area and most of them came to Beirut and it was over populated from the Lebanese and the Palestinian and we worked the last in… not only with women but all categories because you know people left their houses and there was a great number of missed people, martyrs and wounded people, and you know, Saida area, especially Ein El Hilweh camp, which is the biggest camp was called at that time, women kingdom, because all men were in prison, in Ansar prison, the Israeli prison, and even men over 14 years were in prison, and Ein El Hilweh was severely bombed and most of the women started to rebuild the camp. Because it was called women’s kingdom because women rebuilt the camp after it was, before it was a yard, because the destruction was so ugly and was so big you know… we women started to work and to hold the responsibility of the family, this was not new for the Palestinian women because even after 1948, the Palestinian women held the responsibility of the family and they was the first supported to the family and at that time even you know, we know that women started to travel to Arab countries in order to help their families, this helped women in order to be… to, to be members in different parties and organization and in 1965, you know, the women the Palestinian women established the general union of Palestinian women, and from that time and on, Palestinian women are working inside and outside Palestine on involving women in the general affairs and to participate in the Palestinian march to liberate Palestine and you know to build our democratic state, this is beside the social work to empower women and help them be an effective member in the Palestinian march. Of course, now we held our congress in Palestine in 2009, and it was the first conference where all Palestinian women from in inside Palestine and outside Palestine meet for the first time, it was really impressive and you know, and it was the first time where we go to Palestine, it was the first time we go to Palestine and it was the first time I see Palestine. It was really a historical day to all Palestinian women all over the world met, it was really different moment no body can express it, till now I cant express that moment because it was a mixture of belonging of emotions, I can’t explain it very well you know, because I couldn’t believe as all Palestinian that we were in Palestine at that moment and I stayed for 5 days kept dreaming that I am in Lebanon, that I am in Jordan. I couldn’t believe that I am in Palestine you know… as a women’s union, after our existence in Palestine, women union took many steps in order to develop and to the situation of the women’s union. And we presented our document on the Palestinian rights and we can note that Palestinian women reached to many position and you know, we have a great number in the legislative council and we have a great number in the Palestinian national council, we have 5 ministers, women ministers, we have a great number also of women representing in the women’s councils in Palestine, but in the meantime we can note also, that we are till deprived of many rights but this is you know due to the Israeli occupation of the land, because we are a state under occupation, and you can imagine how Israel is still stealing the land and building settlement and every morning we wake up to hear about new unites of settlements although Palestinians give their maximum efforts to push the peace process to reach practical steps but Israel is not committed to any resolutions, and you of course are hearing about the negotiations Israel is still out the UN resolutions and it turns all backs to all UN resolutions which needs a big pressure on Israel in order to be committed to the peace process, to the UN resolutions you know. You know that now there is a chance for nine months to reach for a solution but it seems we are, we got used to the Israeli attitude in rejecting all resolutions and by force they are trying to practice their policy on all Palestinians and you know there are still about 6 thousand or 9 thousand detainees in prisons, of course we were happy when we heard about the 26 detainees who were released 5 days ago and we spoke with some of them who were sentences, or were in prison for 30 years you know, and there are still thousands of detainees who are asking for freedom, Israel and its policy is you know, is trying to steal all the land and you can see yesterday for example, I heard that 14 percent of the Jerusalem territory are left for Palestinians which is nothing, They are trying to Jewdize all the Palestinian places, cities and villages, I don’t think that there is pressure form the UN or from America. America is not just partner in the peace process, they support Israel in all possibilities and all support for Israel and the EU also is not working in a way where they can represent a pressure, or form a pressure on Israel, of course they are working now on boycott on production of the settlements. But sorry to say they are about 520 companies were they work with Israelis. Of course Palestinians give peace process a chance to achieve our goals you know, depending on the different agreements but I think the Palestinian authority will now go to UN bodies where they can complain and condemn Israel in all its practices, and this is what makes Israel so scared about it you know. But Palestinians haven’t any alternatives; we have to go for the UN bodies, perhaps it maybe a reason where they can an end for this occupation. On concerning our work in Lebanon we are trying in order to support our Palestinian families to empower them and to solve some of their problems, big problems, because refuge is a very humiliated factor in the lives of the Palestinians after 65 years, Palestinians are still living in difficulty and they are trying to reshape their life in order to come back to Palestine and we think as Palestinian refugees most of our problems will be solved once we are on our homeland in our homeland. In our work we try to work with all categorize of our people in the different camps and the gathering, we work on of course mobilizing women to be full participants and active in the Palestinian march and activate her role to be a full partner, you know, we are working through 2 programs with Norwegian peoples aid on empowering women and we work on a program combating violence against women and we are trying to mobilize our women and empower them in order to face the daily battle of life which is so difficult in the camps and gatherings. We are working on a program for pre school education, we have a great number of kindergartens and nurseries and we have parents committees in every camp where we follow up the situation of our children and we have a listening center for violated women and children, where we can you know, communicate with them and try to help their problems health and psychological problems. We work on physiotherapy center for disabled children and elders, we have also a special education center where we try to, sorry… a special education center where we try to know you know, all problems of children and we have a center for embroidery in order to find a job opportunities for women, and in the mean time to preserve our inheritance, we have a micro credit program where we can also, try to find job opportunities for women and men, we have four projects because, you know, Palestinians in Lebanon don’t have their minimum civil rights in Lebanon, for that we have a big problem in employment, of unemployment, and in this programs we try to support poor families in order to make small businesses where they do live in dignity and support their families, we are working on all levels and we work also with… we have great number of public libraries, where we make several activities for children and young men, we have youth centers also to empower youth and to communicate with the camp and the people in the camp, I mean we are working in all these issues in order to empower our people and try to solve some of their problems, because we cant pretend that we solve all problems of the Palestinians in Lebanon, in general our people in Lebanon have so many problems in the health issues, level, educational levels and we have the problem of the future you know, people, after 65 years you know, do not find any horizon in front of them, Israel it is still turning its back to all UN resolutions, they don’t want to discuss the refugee issues, and concerning the negotiations, our president Mahmoud Abbas assured on our stated through the 1967 territories with Jerusalem as a capital and the right of return to Palestinian according to 194. In this case you know, I cant say that although we are human being and sometimes we feel despair and… but Palestinians are controlled by hope you know, and they want to continue to solve this problem, because you know, we will find ourselves in our homeland you know. Even Palestinians who, are rich and living in a very good living standard need to have their state. You know, from this point we can say that Palestinians will never give up and will continue to build our state and to live as all human being of the world. We want to be normal in our homeland, we want to breathe we want our borders and our sky and land, as al peoples of the world, this is the longest revolution in the world, we are the only people, under occupation, we are not asking for the impossible, this is our land and we want to come back, even our children, you know, we educate them that we have our land, Palestine, and we want to come back and they know everything about the villages, their villages, they know what they do plant and what every city and village is famous of, we try to plant in our children that we are Palestinians, we were uprooted from our land and we have a nice country, and really we have a very beautiful country, and we want to be as all peoples of the world. We are not asking for the impossible you know, but this world is so oppressive you know, and they are talking about human rights and the international legitimacy and… but concerning Palestinians I don’t think that we are on the agenda of any country. I mean sometimes of course they soliderate with us and they can be sympathized with us, but in general it is not clear that they are really…

TAPE 2

ASJ: … trying to form a pressure on Israel in order to withdraw, and on the contrary Israel is going on the building settlements, every morning we wake up on thousands of unites are going to be built in our land. Where can we build our state as Palestinians you know? We are accused of terrorism, this is the climax of the Israeli terrorism you know, when Palestinians fighting, of course, it took us along time in order to absorb the idea of peace, which peace they are talking about it? It took us along time, we are convinced that peace is a humanitarian value, and we want to live together, but Israel, is not working on peace process, they are destroying the peace process every day in their barbarous policy on all levels, they are stealing the land, stealing the water, still detaining our militants, they are… everyday we wake up to hear settlers are destroying the trees, everyday, they cut 100, 150 olive tree, which is the source of living for most Palestinian families you know. This is the climax of terrorisms… Mai, Mai.. Kholoud… Sorry.
Of course, I lived so many experiences with my sisters in the organization, and in 1985you know we were besieged in Shatila camp, and it as a very bitter experience, where we were taking care of women and children in the camp and it was besieged for three years, and you can imagine a small spot, the camp is so small and it was destroyed three times, and we were rebuilding it, imagine through a siege you are building… many people were killed, many people were wounded and a great number of missed people and this is after the Israeli invasion to Lebanon and it was bitter… we sometimes we try to forget it because it was a bitter, and it was from the Lebanese, some Lebanese militia and Syrians you know… people ate of cats at that time, because it was besieged for a long time, women were representing the security guarantee for the camp I order to prevent fighters and militias from killing each other, we are still dealing with the results of those battles and Palestinians are human beings, many women, mothers lost three or four persons in the camp wars, it was very ugly and barbarous, I mean, people are still living the consequences of that phase even the Israeli invasion to Lebanon, and the daily life you know of Palestinians is so painful, because basics of any human being is not available, in our work and activities we try as much as possible to reduce the suffering of our people, we do not pretend to solve all, but we try our best in order to give a for example a secure atmosphere for our children to grow up in a semi peaceful life, where they can be sane and really human beings as all children of the worlds. We are trying our best to secure this atmosphere, environment, a peaceful environment to live in a normal life.

Nicola Pratt: Do you mind if I ask you some questions about when you were growing up? When did you first become aware that you were Palestinian?

ASJ: a cause?

NP: Yes, a cause, a Palestinian cause, what was the first time you realized?

ASJ: when I was grown on living in a camp, this is a big question, it was a big question, why do I live in this environment, why do I live in a camp? My family were living in Palestine, they were enjoying their normal life, why? This was a question, and after the 1967 war, you know… I was starting to ask myself and to see in front of me, and there were also a group of women from Fateh movement, who mobilized us and took care of us, you know, and we have a great number of militants like, Jihan El Hilo, Shadia el Hilo, Shadyah Habashna, Um Jihad, Salwa Abu Khadra… and there is a great number of militants who took care of us and mobilized us in the beginning, I think it was successful raising up, because the indication is that we continued till now you know, and we gave all our lives and support for this cause.

NP: were your family afraid for you becoming…

ASJ: Of course, my family was so afraid in the beginning and they prevent us because it was not familiar for us to join such activities, and I remember when I went to the first camp to military training, you know, my family said you will not go and things like that, because my mother was responsible about us and my father was in the gulf, and she was responsible about our raising at that time and she prevented me but I insisted you know, and then she accepted the idea and now she is a good supporter for me to continue on this struggling of course, and my mother in 1968, I mean 1975, 76, she was preparing food for the fighters and the families.

NP: you mentioned earlier when you were in school, Fidaei?

ASJ: Yes, Fidaei?

NP: when they came to speak to you and your classmates about the Palestinian struggle.

ASJ: Yes, Yes, but as I told you it was an event when the 1967 war started but later on, I joined to their general union of Palestinian students and worked with them, in voluntary work, we were digging shelters and we were visiting the Fidaeiah and the military bases and then when I was grown up I became a member in the women union and I stopped. From the 70s till now.

NP: Is the general union of Palestinian women, is a union for all women, not just Fateh?

ASJ: All women, a framework of all women organizations, and in Palestine it is the umbrella of all women organizations, and you know, the… our branch here is one of the most active and we took the first prize in our first conference in Palestine.

NP: The prize was for all your contribution?

ASJ: Yes, for all our contributions because we built, oh, I did not tell you about our association and social association for sponsoring orphans and widows and hardship cases, we work a lot with the poor families and hardship cases, and we take care and psychological support and social support.

NP: has the work of the union changed over time?

ASJ: yes, of course, we can say from, since 25 years till now, we built more kindergartens and association, social associations, we built a number of public libraries, we also opened so many classes, remediate classes for children who have educational problems with the children and UNRWA schools, now we are working also with displaced people Palestinians from Syria, they are about 50 thousand people, they are distributed on all camps and gatherings, we take care of them, we receive their children in our kindergarten, and the remediate classes we relief them and secure them, sometimes money, cloths, food, we make, we also receive women who have traumas and psychological problems, and children because there are so many cases where they were exposed to suicide, I mean, really, it’s a new catastrophe concerning Palestinians, because they left everything, they lost their men, their husbands and sons and daughters, and they lost everything what they built through the 65 years. We are trying our best to relief those people. Our ambassador in Lebanon Ashraf.

NP: Ah, Ok. Which one is he?

ASJ: Ashraf. What were we talking about?

NP: you were talking about now working with the Syrian refugees and the Palestinians.

ASJ: ah, I mean, we are trying our best in order to reduce their suffering you know, because you know, most o them haven’t any hope to come back and this bloody [inaudible: 16:00]… you know. And many of them are thinking if immigration and you have heard about the ships of death you know, and how many people sank and died, because they are trying to go for a secure area where they can practice own life as human brings, I mean this is the utmost ambition of Palestinians, and this is a big problem, no body knows where it ends, no body knows where does it end. As a women’s union we are representing a referendum for all people because we worked even with the non IDs people you know, who haven’t any documents and we have about 5 thousand families who have no passports or documents, the embassy, the Palestinian embassy in Lebanon is trying to give them some guards, where they can move, we are working on all levels even the health issues, we worked with UNRWA and UNICEF on screening some diseases specially anemia concerning children and women breast cancer and reproductive health, we are working on reproductive health you know, with young people and the university students, we even worked on environment, we planted some camps with trees, I mean, we are working on all levels where we can, we try to find a normal environment where they can live.

NP: what is the most difficult…

ASJ: Sorry1

NP: What is the most difficult thing about your work?

ASJ: Of course, we have so may challenges you know, I told you, the main issue is the future of the people, this is a big problem, we are living in Lebanon everyday we have a scenario where Palestinians want to be transferred or settled down, and this is a big problem concerning Palestinians because you know, all Palestinians who were uprooted from Palestine weaved their life and shaped their lives to come back, they never think of settling in Lebanon, and you know Lebanon is a very small country and everyday we have a scenario of Palestinians, because there are some, political parties in Lebanon who reject the Palestinian existence in Lebanon, and we try you know, to have a normal relation with all parties in order not to interfere in any political issue, we don’t want to be settled in Lebanon, we don’t want the Lebanese passport, we don’t want to interfere in any political issue, but we want to live in dignity till we are able to go back to our land, this is what we want as Palestinians in Lebanon, we are deprived of the basic rights in Lebanon and we have a great number of unemployed people you know, we have a great number of engineers, doctors, many qualified people who cant find any work, you can imagine when a doctor works as a nurse or a staff nurse in a hospital, our engenders were working in picking apples and oranges and the gardens and you know, we want to live in dignity to work. Now, if you take any support it will not be the alternative when you work and try to work. And in our work as a women’s union, even through the micro credit program we try to help most of those people. We try for example to give loans for doctors to pen small clinic in the camp, he can’t work, the doctor can’t work in Lebanon, but in camps they can work and we give so many loans for those people to have loans in order to face the daily battle of life in order to support their families and find job opportunities.

NP: is it difficult to find the funds, the grants, to meet all the needs of… as you said, you said there is a great need amongst…

ASJ: yes, there is a great need, we have a great need, we have a big problem in finance, we try to make proposals for different activities, but you know, it goes on for 2 years or 1 year sometimes, and then its gone. For example, when we opened the physiotherapy center for disabled children, we worked for 2 years, but when they came from the EU to evaluate you know, they gave us 4 additional months to continue and then… but after that we couldn’t stop working with those for example disabled children because we were having about 350 children in one camp. How can you stop such a project you know, and you are taking care of the children and in this project we worked with the whole family not only the children, we tried to empower women how to deal with their disabled children in the houses you know. We were making home visits and they come also to the center, we were doing them recreational activities and we tried to greet them in their community, even in our kindergarten we received so many disabled children in order to be as normal as others I mean. We have you know, a financial problem and… but we are trying our best in order to make self production, we pay for the fees of our membership n the union, and through these fees we supported some camps with the micro credit program, we are trying to think, but it is not easy for us to bring money in order to continue in all our project. Now, UNICEF is a full partner with us, and we have now a project for the displaced Palestinians from Syria, we received all children we have about 1000 children through kindergarten and remedial classes and we employed women displaced women from Syria to work also with those children, especially teachers who were working in Syria.

NP: what do you like most about your work?

ASJ: What?

NP: What do you like? What makes you happier?

ASJ: Ah, what makes me happy is that I realized so many activities which help our families in the camp you know, because these associations you know, when you open a kindergarten you solve the problem of the child and the mother, and the whole family, and when you work with the micro credit, you try to secure job opportunities for men and women, and we have so many good and successful examples for people who have nothing and they try to build their life and they improve their way of living and even we give scholarships for young people who want to continue their studying and they cant we try to give them a priority to pay their university fees and we try to help those families, even we give sometimes… we have a special loan where we give it to people in order to change their way of living, we give them loans to renovate their houses to buy a refrigerator or help them in their marriage parties, we are working on these issues in order to reduce a little bit their suffering.

NP: and you are happy to see the change?

ASJ: of course, of course, I… my heart is getting bigger when I see a family you know, was in a situation and turned to a better situation, of course I feel very proud and happy about it, of course.

NP: Do you think that it’s easier now for young women to become active in society than before?

ASJ: Of course, of course, the situation of Palestinians in general is difficult in Lebanon and people ask for work and you know that Palestinians were… the carriers of Phds in the world, but of course though the consequent battles and wars of course, we were retreated, but till now, Palestinians doing their best in order to send their children to schools you know, we are, trying our best to find a standard were can we deal with children, because children are the people of the future, and when you build the child in a very scientific and positive raising up, you will have a treasure in the future, we always think of this point of view where we can take care of the children in order to be the ammunition for our future.

NP: Do you have daughters?

ASJ: No, I am not married. I am not married but I think that all children are my sons and daughter because though my work I think there is a very good relationship, social relationship with the woman and the children and most whom I worked with, I feel that…

TAPE 3

ASJ:… I feel that my nephews and nieces are my daughters and sons I do not have this problem I mean, thanks god.

NP: So, you been playing the role for people that Um Jihad played for you, you can be like a role model for…

ASJ: I don’t think there is a copy of any person to any person, but I think I earned a lot from those symbols and you know, for month ago we lost our president, she is Isam Abdulhadi, and she is a big militant, she was a poet and writer, and she was a militant, and was the president of our union in 1965, and she has a long, long history of struggling for the rights of the Palestinians, I think that we have Fatima Bernaewi, the first captive and she is now living in Gaza, she is a good militant, and we have a great number of militants, Palestinian symbols you know.

NP: is there anything that I haven’t asked you that you think is important to ask me?

ASJ: I think that you know, as Palestinian refugees we are trying to have the right you know to live in our homeland to have a state to have an identity to have a [passport and to breathe the air of our land to live in a normal way as our great poet Mahmoud Darweesh said, we don’t want to be hero’s we don’t want to be “Dahaya” what is it?

NP: Victims?

ASJ: victims, we don’t want to be victims we want to be normal people were can we live and the peasant go to its land, cultivate and plant, where women can also deliver their children in hospitals not on check points, we want to see the red color in roses not in blood. This is want, what do we want. This is what we want.

NP: Hopefully one day.

ASJ: In gods willing, and we need the international community and the legitimacy you know, take its real role in putting pressure on Israel because I think it is the only cancer in the area where they are trying to plant fear, terrorism, destruction, you know on our people. We want to a pressure in order to push Israel to really work for peace, which guarantee our rights as Palestinian people, this is what we want. This is what we only want.

NP: of course you deserve.




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