Interview with Ferial Abu Hamdan

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Interview with Ferial Abu Hamdan
2013
TAPE 1
Nicola Pratt: great, can we begin, could you tell us where and when were you born?
Ferial Abu Hamdan: I was born in Amman, Jordan in 1955, 10th march. I have a
partner twin, a boy and a girl.
NP: triplets.
FAH: No, two with me, I am a girl and he is a boy.
NP: Ah, okay, twins. Okay, I didn't know that.
FAH: yeah, in Jordan, we were living in Jordan, my father was working there,
although he is Lebanese and my mother Lebanese, they lived in Jordan.
NP: So what was your father doing?
FAH: he is a contractor, he's been working there for a long, long time, and my father
now is more than 100 years old.
NP: Really?
FAH: Yeah, yes, and he is still very busy and you know, maybe next time we will let
you meet him when we go to Garifeh.
NP: In Gods willing.
FAH: he is really nice, he traveled a lot he done many things in his life, he had the
royal awards from Jordan because he built one of the towns called Ma'an, in a very
short time after the flood came and ruined all the city, so he got it, he rebuilt it, as a
contractor.
NP: And how long did you stay in Jordan?
FAH: Well, I want to tell you something first, I have 7 brothers and we are 7 brothers
and 4 girls and 7 boys, okay. I stayed in Jordan till 1975, till I studied I went to
England I told you, then I went back to the States, I studied architecture in Oklahoma
university.
NP: your first degree you studied... its in Jordan, no, no, you never finished...
FAH: NO, I finished high school.
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NP: Only high school, Okay.
FAH: I finished high school in Jordan, and then I went to... I was supposed to study in
the American University of Beirut, architecture, but the war, the civil war have
started here, so I had a brother studying in England, and so I went there and stayed
in Colchester, I wasn't happy, so I have my twin brother in the state, so he said, why
don't you come over. So, I thought we will be living together me and him in the same
apartment, but no, the first week we had big fight, me and him, so I moved to the
dorms so I never see him. We didn't live with eachother.
NP: Okay, okay, so growing up, when you were growing up, what was the first
memory that you have of events outside of the home, political events?
FAH: The war in Jordan, there was a war in 1964, there was an invasion of Israel to
Jordan, we ran away and we came to Lebanon, I remember we lost my father, but
we didn't, we thought we lost our father, and my mother, actually, first time, they
kidnapped my father, they stole his car when he was coming back home.
NP: Who kidnapped you father?
FAH: Palestinians, they want to... they stole his car, they were two men, and one
man want to kill him, to shoot him, the other told him, just leave him alone, this is a
desert he will die anyway, so they left him, and didn't shoot him, so it was the first
time, and the second time we thought we lost both os us, my mother and my father
because we erne here... they sent us to Lebanon because of the war in 1964, I
remember...
NP: 64 or 67?
FAH: 67, 67, and we came to Lebanon and my mother stayed with my father because
of the first incident that he had, and we lost contact with them so we were crying
and we thought, we have lost both of them, and then after one month, suddenly,
they showed up, and they been through a lot of misery and you know, so, that's I
have my first... I remember first time I heard Jamal Abdel Nasser it was in the radio
because at day time, and he was talking about the war and Sinai when they fought
with Israel. It was my first experience of political thing and then after that I start
listening to the radio when kind Hussein was talking about the people and what he
would do to release Jordan from all the Palestinian, they came to have their
replacement country in Jordan, so I was there. And this is the second time, and the
third war was... I've been in Lebanon since 1985,1 came through the civil war and my
husband was in the army, an officer in the army, so I had worst time of my life.
Because all the time there is all these militia in the streets, Amal movement, the
Palestinian, what's their name? the Lebanese Forces, and all of them have guns in
the street and fighting, and I had a very bad experience with those things, so, the last
war that was really, really horrible after we finished... no, after I got married in 1985,
I lived in Lebanon, I passed all these horrible time, and I remember when the Syrian
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people, the Syrian army came to Lebanon, I was the one who was throwing rice on
them because we were so happy they are the savior of Lebanese people because the
conflict between all the parties was horrible, and many dead people you see all
around you, and once I was cooking and I have... it was a peaceful day and I just
heard a bomb, very strong, shook all the building in Beirut and then I heard too
many screaming, there was a man and a woman, my neighbors in the second
building having coffee in their balcony in the first floor in the building where they
were living. The bomb came to them and they just died. It was...I had a nervous
breakdown I went to the hospital, I stayed there for one week, a nervous breakdown
is horrible, it was all the time vomiting too much, unstable, it shock me like hell. And
that was before I got any of my children, then after, I felt better, and after one year I
get my first baby, and all the time I was carrying him, I was running from Beirut to
come to the mountains, because I am afraid I have a bomb coming to my apartment
because my husband was all the time not there, because he was in the army, when
there is war he is supposed to be in the offices or wherever they send him. So I was
all the time alone with my child and then when we felt... when the Syrian army came
I was very happy, first they were really very good, we felt that, Oh my god, it is now
normal, no body is carrying guns in the streets.
NP: Which year was that?
FAH: I don't remember, maybe, 90, maybe. And then they became, they changed to
monsters, each one in the army, from the Syrian army, I remember once I was with
my husband in the car and there is another in front of us an old man driving and a
Syrian army, was giving the direction to the cars to walk, and he didn't see him, this
old man, and so he started screaming at him, this Syrian, and he came, when that old
man stopped, he came close to his car and he started to beat this old man. And I was
behind him and I was screaming like him, I wanted to come off my car and to stop
him, and I remember my husband wont let me, because he will shoot you, he tell
me. So I start being afraid of them instead of felt that they are came to make the
stability, and now we have, I felt that, oh my god, they are... really, they didn't come
to let us live in peace, no, they want to control everything we do, even when we are
in the streets, the situation was becoming very, very bad in Lebanon, till Hariri came.
And I remember when he came we didn't know who he was, and he started doing all
these marvelous things, building downtowns, and he made so many things to stop
the war, between all the parties, but we couldn't... but the Syrians stayed in
Lebanon, for a long time, then I start listening to politics, who is this, who is that, you
know, to be... to know what is going around me and so no body let them leave
Lebanon until he died, the big demonstration, that I was one of the people in the
streets, and when they left...
NP: In 2005.
FAH: in 2005, yeah. I was in the street, yeah.
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NP: just to go back to when you were younger, so you left Jordan in 1975 and you
went to England and then you went to America, and you studied architecture in
America...
FAH: environmental design.
NP: Sorry.
FAH: Is aid architecture and environmental design.
NP: Environmental design, sorry, and why did you decide to return to Lebanon.
FAH: No, I got married, you know, it happened, I didn't know how bad it is in
Lebanon then. So I got married and he is in the Army, so he couldn't leave, so all the
time I was begging him to leave the army, sometimes he agree, and sometimes his
parents refuse the idea and then he change his mind, so you know, on and off. And
that's how life goes.
NP: Did you meet your husband in America?
FAH: No, he is my relative, and I used to see him when I was young, I used to see him
when l=we used to come visit in summer time in Lebanon, but no, I never have any
relationship with him.
NP: Okay, and how did you feel about getting married and getting back to Lebanon?
FAH: Very miserable, I wish I didn't do it, but I am happy now, I had all my children,
but no, I never had any good day, because everyday is suffering, everyday its
miserable to just keep the day pass safely as I could, especially because we stayed
many years... I used to live in the 9th floor and there was no electricity and no water.
Because no electricity there is no elevator and the pump wont pump the water, so I
didn't have water on the 9th floor, not even... so I used to carry my children up and
down the stairs and sometimes I came up to, the mountain to stay with his parents
for you know, few days and then go back to Beirut when its settled, because it was
on and off, on and off you know, so and then it goes back again as it was before, so I
felt my god, I know I am going to die one day but I am not going to keep my life
being afraid all time of dying, you know, it hit me, why I am being afraid, what
happens is going to happen, you know why should I all the time be paranoid, and
nothing if anything, except this day finished safely, this day finished safely, oh my
god, thank you. It's a blessing if you have a day finished safely without any of my
children get really hurt, but I was all the time nagging on my husband to leave the
army to go live in any other country, but he couldn't he refused to.
NP: When you were living in America, did you follow events in America, about what
was happening in Lebanon, or did you hear the news from your family? Did you hear
from your family in Lebanon?
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FAH: No, I used to hear yes, in Lebanon, but you know, I didn't care, its not... I didn't
think of it. I just hear it and that's it, something I passed, because we been hearing
when we were in Jordan, we were hearing too many things happening in Lebanon,
not the first time, but I wouldn't even care, you know, but when I came to Lebanon, I
found out its really, oh my god, you cant live... because I have choice to live in
another country, but some people who are living there all the time, here in Lebanon
all the time, they don't know any better. Because I know how to live a better
situation, because I was always in shock and paranoid.
NP: and when did you... during this period were you involved in any social work or
public activities?
FAH: No, no, the only thing I was all the time thinking to have my bag ready if any,
you know, something will destroy my house, where I am going to run away, you
know, to have the medication for my children, the papers, to run away, that's the
only thing I used to thin all the time. That's... don't have anything more than that at
that time. And then when things settled a little bit I start in my balcony in Beirut, I
was living in the 9th floor, in front of me there was this land that all the people
around throw their dumps in it especially you know, furniture, all the materials that
the building was destroyed they throw it there. So, it was annoying to me and I
found out that I can change it to a park. To a parking car, so because of the law that
any empty land, you can do this if you have signature from the neighbors around. So
it was the first social thing I did. It was the first thing. I wrote the proposal and I let
the concierge in the building to go to other buildings because I was afraid to go, I
don't know, then to sign it and then I went to the municipality of Beirut and I submit
it and they ordered the owner... they couldn't rack back the owner of this land, so
they called me and said you can do it on your own and use the money, when you
have cars parked. At that time, my husband was making fun of me, who is going to
pay for parking for this place? And so, somebody came and brought these trucks and
they cleaned all the land and they have somebody a person there to control it and
after one week I was very surprised to see it full of cars, you know, that's very neat
and everybody is paying for their cars to be parked there, so my husband was like oh
my god.... And then the owner, it was one of the relatives, and then the owner came,
and so it was the first thing that cleaned the area around me. And then after I did
this...
NP: Sorry, can I just ask why you felt it was important?
FAH: Because the view and the smell, and you know, I thought, how many rats and
how many things between all those buildings, just this empty space that's full of
dump, you see, and so that's for health reasons, and for scenery and then, sorry!
NP: Bless you!
FAH: Thank you, and then my neighbors in the building, they ask me to become the
leader of the committee for the building committee and then I start fixing the stairs
and the gate, I had security lock for the door outside, the inter phone you know,
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started doing these things and collecting money every month from the neighbors
just for the maintenance of the building... so I started having meeting, I was the only
woman, and there are others been. And that's how I started, but this time I have
been introduced to Anisa Najar, that was 5, 6, around maybe 1992, at that time. And
I used to like her a lot and know her experience in life.
NP: she must have been a lot younger than...
FAH: yes, and me, sharing... because I don't have any relatives, I don't have any of
my family in Beirut, so I need to know somebody, and she is very educated, I learned
a lot from her.
NP: How did you meet her?
FAH: one woman introduced me to her, they told me there is a village welfare
society and if you want to come to this organization to be... I met her, and she found
me you know, much younger than the rest of the women, so she invited me to her
house, and I started going to visit her, at that time I didn't know how to drive in
Beirut, it was really tough. But I used to have a driver, because my husband is an
officer, so he used to drive me, especially I used to go at night, my neighbors
daughter she used to stay and watch TV and my children would be sleeping, and my
husband at work, so I used to visit her, Anisa Najar. And he was always making fun of
me, I would understand if you are going to any place, but why would you go to an
old lady? Spending time with her, but it was my pleasure.
NP: She was living in Beirut as well?
FAH: yes, yes, I used to go visit her and talk with her sometimes she have few
women at the same age as her or maybe a little bit younger than her, each one is
really important you know, so I was exposed to very intellectual group of women
who have devotion for the social life. You know, they are, they want to do, to change
things. I used to listen to them talking about many things that they should do.
NP: What did you think at the time, when you were listening to them?
FAH: I felt, well, in the beginning I was so happy just to know true people,
intellectual people, because my neighbors in Beirut they are not my standard of
thinking because non of them have been studied or finished schools, they just want
to raise children you know that's it, I wanted to be... I was happy just to be with this
group at the beginning, and then I became with the WILF, we start the meeting with
WILF, and...
NP: Which year was that do you think?
FAH: 1990, 91, 92, maybe. And I remember when we used to go there; they have
letters, from WILF international about maybe what is happening with women in
Vietnam, I was so... oh my god, it expanded my vision, and so I was just a listener I
want to grasp anything I hear, I never used to talk a lot or have any discussion,
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because I am very happy just to hear what I am hearing and to get to know these
ladies, and start being with them I the meeting. Sometimes one of the ladies invites,
you know, the others, in her house, and sometimes I used to go sometimes not,
depending on my children's... they have exams or... you know, but I was happy.
Once I went to with Anisa Najar and she called me and she said, we need to go, there
is a meeting with Naela Muawad, she was in the parliament., the Lebanese
parliament.
NP: She is the wife of...
FAH: Rene Muawad who was killed. He was the president of Lebanon for one day,
and she said, she was having this campaign about want women to share in the
municipality, and I didn't know what was the occasion, but I took Anisa because I
had a driver, I took Mrs. Anisa and we went to that place, and I met Naela Muawad,
she was talking to everybody, and when we finished, she was encouraging
everybody to go talk... to share with the municipality. At that time I had my office, I
had an architecture firm in Khalda, I had partnership with a civil engineer and we
were working fine, and everybody was talking about you know, being municipality
for the first time, for a long, long time to have the election.
NP: this is to be the first election since the war!
FAH: Since the war, yeah. And I start thinking all the time when I come to Gharifeh,
my hometown, this one should be here, somebody has somebody has to do this
here... I have too many thoughts about everything. Then you know, I start writing
them, I'll be doing the dishes and I have something on my mind, so I go and write,
write... I have many papers, you know, written on them what should be done to
Gharifeh, but I was thinking of, maybe I should tell somebody to do them, I never
thought of me being in the municipality so when I went with Anisa to see Naela
Muawad, I saw she want the woman to be part of the municipality election, and
then aftet everybody have finished Mrs. Anisa came to her close to her, and she was
telling her, we have this lady here she is an architect and I was telling Mrs. Anisa, I
wish somebody... she was talking to her and she told her, and Naela Muawad looked
at me and said, we want you, you're the ideal person to be in the municipality, I said,
what? Me? I was out of space, I mean, its not... I'm not even thinking about it, I am
writing what we should d but not for me but for someone else, and she said no, you
should, you are... we need engineers, you should be in the municipality, so second
day, third day, and I start writing more, working more on the papers, working more
about you know, what should be done in Gharifeh, so I think what is the most
important thing, what's famous what is people living on, which is live, olive trees, so,
I thought of doing, I thought its important to make cooperative, you know, for the
farmers for women, you know, I wrote this thing and then nice in my office, i as
staying there, and I thought, yeah, why not me? Maybe I thought it will be like a
market for me, to have more projects to work in my firm, so I called my father, my
father was in Gharifeh then, what do you think if a woman came to the elections in
Gharifeh? Is there anything against this? So my father was telling me, oh, you mean
you want to be in the election? I said, what do you think? Is there anything against
7


it? He said, no, nothing against being a woman in the election, but this one you cant
say it in the phone, you have to come to see me. So I went to Gharifeh the second
day to talk with my father, my father before he was in the municipality, from a long
time, he came once from Jordan to settle down in Lebanon, and then he thought
everything is becoming you know safe and everything fine, and he lost so much
money anyway, but he was in the municipality in Gharifeh, and then he resigned and
went back to Jordan. But he never told me I didn't know about it, so he said okay
come over, so I went there, and I remember I sat and he was in front of me, its like I
felt like lamina chair of confess.
NP: Confessional.
FAH: confessional, yes, he was asking me, why do you want? Why you do this? He
was, he look at me and said, who gave you this? And I said, I did, and he was
shocked, he said you have to do all this. He said, are you sure you can do this, I said
okay, I don't mind, but I thought I want to talk with you because I don't want to
just... because everyone is talking about...
TAPE 2
FAH:... having women in the elections I want to see if you are capable for it, but I
think you are more than capable of doing it, so he gave me his trust you know, and I
faced my husband and his parents and everybody was so proud, yes, yes. And my
husband he didn't say yes or no, because he is army anyhow, he can't vote. So, I
remember when I went to get my papers done and brought them to the place where
you have to register, I was few women, in all the mount Lebanon, and...
NP: You mean few women to stand in the municipality?
FAH: Yeah, to... yeah.
NP: Do you know how many women might have stood? Yeah, in Lebanon.
FAH: In Lebanon, maybe around 75.
NP: Okay.
FAH: In all of Lebanon. And after that, in the election day, I remember I don't know
what I am doing. Okay, when I talked with my father, I came back to my office and I
typed all the papers I start collecting this ideas here and there, you know, and I
wanted someone to proof read it because my Arabic is not very good. You know, and
if people want to read it, I found somebody to proof read it for me, and I made too
many copies and I went to Gharifeh and I start sending them, I gave them to a boy to
send them to everybody in Gharifeh, no body knows me, because I was away all the
time, and then I was living in Beirut. But I remember I used to go drive in my car, and
I would see one person reading my paper, my project proposal, it was the first time
ever in the municipality, someone have projects you know to do, and aomebody
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would be reading and the others would be listening, 3 or 4 people here and there,
and there. And then they would say, who is Ferial? Ah maybe, her husband is... Her
father is... you know, like this. But I used to hear them and no one even know me,
but I used to hear them sitting in my car hiding, to see the response. So, it was very
good, very nice adventure for me, I felt adventure, my husband said its an
adventure, if I didn't get elected at least I will be well known as an architect, so I
would have more job...
NP: It was a win win situation, a win win situation.
FAH: Yeah. And then I won, I had very high.
NP: were you surprised?
FAH: Yes, very surprised, because and even the Progressive Nationalistic party,
Waleed Junblat, they sent me, sent for me, I was very surprised that, they call me
and want to have an interview and they said they want... because they already have
named a person from their political party to be the mayor, and then after that I
came, so they said, what do you think? We will give him three years and then we will
give you the other three years. Me, I don't know anything about politics, No, who
are you to decide? They said, what? They were shocked about my stupidity. No, let
the people decide, who are you? Everybody said no, just me. And we want you to do
this... yes, I will. I will, I was so sure of myself I was so stupid. So, I refused to take
three years you know for me, so I never got to be a mayor, not for three years even,
not for one year, and that's how I started the social work, you know, that's from the
broader... you know I did many., many things, my CV is full of... its not activities, I
don't call it activities, actions in the field work, I worked so much, I got an award, I
told you, 2004, United Nations award, this is it, you want to see it?
NP: Okay.
FAH: 2004, for the volunteer work.
NP: That's lovely. That's lovely.
FAH: Yeah, and they had a big reception, you know, and they gave it to me after,
because I made so much, I trained so many women about processed food, I brought
the organic farming, you know, I did many things. I told you this in 2007.
NP: Yes, but now we have to record it on the tape. So, this is in 2004, that you won
this award.
FAH: Yeah...
NP: And this award is given annually, its an annual award?
FAH: Yeah and...
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NP: How many other people won the award?
FAH: 12,12 people in all Lebanon. Yeah.
NP: So you are one of 12. Okay, and were they also other women there, or were you
the only woman?
FAH: Yeah, I remember I don't know, I didn't see any women, no, yes there is one, I
got it because of what I did with the agriculture thing, they got it for something else,
but for the agriculture thing, it was the only woman, so...
NP: Congratulations. You must be very proud.
FAH: Thank you, this is because I got too many projects from UNDP, and all of them
were very successful, once I got 23 ambassadors to Gharifeh and they were very
impressed of what I got, I got tractor from the Japanese embassy, to the farmers of
Gharifeh, I got 11 computer that was very long time ago, it doesn't look like the
computer now. And have trained too many people to work on computer, so they
recognized my name to the UN volunteer and I got this award.
NP: That's amazing.
FAH: But since then I haven't been working with UNDP a lot, little bit, not major
things like I used to before.
NP: Can I just ask, what was the motivation for you in doing all this work? Why?
FAH: Its my passion. Why? I just feel, I feel, you know I am very happy to do so. I
mean when I am talking about it it gives me pleasure, you know, I always tell the
people don't think that people will appreciate what you do, they are not going to
appreciate... but it makes me very happy to see how I changed peoples lives. Do
you know Linda? You met Linda?
NP: Yeah
FAH: I met her maybe this is the second week, a month, its not very long, I just met
her. You cant imagine how I changed her life drastically, it was her first time to stand
infront of people and speak. Even though she has the quality, the... she is the kind of
person to do so but she never had a chance, and especially when she came to my
house, the first time I met her, she was standing here telling about her life and how
she lost her husband and how she is so sad and she is all the time crying and crying,
and she was crying in my house, and I told her what do you think we will do... this
is... and then she is doing great, it's the first time, now, I felt her she is down, she is
not as lively as she, maybe its very long time or because we had this meeting, the
WILF meeting in her house, it was on Thursday and she worked so hard on it. You
should see how many people, 50 women, were in her home, she cooked for
10


everybody. It was big lunch for everybody; probably she is still tired from that you
know. And I have meet so many women that tell me they now have their own
business of selling processed food, the traditional food in cans to the other people,
and sometimes that makes me happy to do, because I don't like to help people, if
they are hungry to give them meal, no. I believe that this, we have a saying, if
someone is hungry don't give them fish, teach them how to fish.
NP:To fish.
FAH: I really believe so, and in the UNDP project, always when they have an
interview with me I used to tell them, its so important what they are doing because
they are really changing the people's life, because I can see it, I can see it. I
remember the first time we have an interview, I told you I work with the people I see
their life change but in WILF, I don't see their lives change, but in this project I am
working, I feel their life is going to change.
NP: The project... the safety and security project.
FAH: Yeah, yes. Womens safety, social safety campaign, because it depends on how
the reflection of the people when they were filling all these questionnaire, how they
were really happy, yes we are all afraid, I am afraid and you are afraid, and the other
one, we are you know... its not a case, its an issue for many people a group of
people, which means it is an issue, so we are going to do something about it
hopefully.
NP: So, you worked particularly to help women, why?
FAH: Not women, no, I helped farmers, I didn't just help women. Men and women
and children I didn't, its not... but this campaign is for women, after I been... the
American embassy have sent me to the States to, for the election of Obama, I stayed
one month there, and we traveled to many states to have... observe the election and
to learn about it, and I became an observer here in the parliament in the election
here in Lebanon., and I saw women how they are very left out in everything. And
because of WILF and what we are doing all together I feel its about time, now that I
work with women, well, because as I always say, they are more than half of the
society and then they are not doing anything, you know, we should all work
together, at least as a peace activist. Which is... they are very willing to do, but they
want to know the knowledge, the know how to do it, I think I will find a way to teach
them and reach this point I hope.
NP: So, would you say that your motivations are humanitarian?
FAH: Yes, definitely, yeah. The human rights, well on Facebook, they say what's your
religion and I say human rights. So, I believe so. Yeah.
NP: and when did you start first to think about human rights or...
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FAH: Human rights, I think since I was in school, I always think about... no, even in
my house, when I was young because I have a boy brother, the same age like me, he
can do this, but I cant do this, he is allowed to do it because he is a boy and I am not,
so all the time there are people in the house, and all the time arguing why him and
why not me, so... this is...
NP: What did your parents say when you asked why he can do this and I cant?
FAH: they say, because you are a girl and I say, so... why? And I was much smarter
than him in school, I used to get the better grades and always you know, everything I
do I used to be better than him, he was very slow. And he has too many activities
anything besides studying I was more serious in what I do. So, but even though they
did not respect what I want but the good thing is that my father all the time was
arguing when he wouldn't... I am not convinced all the time, and the conversation
with me would be, go to your room. I said okay, I will go to my room but I know you
are mistaken. You are wrong, because you are wrong, because there is no excuse in
what you are saying, I was all the time we would have this kind of argument in the
house, specially I am doing it. Rebellion, till now.
NP: What would you say of the greatest challenges that you faced in the... in your
public work, or being able to work socialy?
FAH: dealing with women.
NP: is it the greatest challenge?
FAH: Yes, my god, dealing with women is really, really hard.
NP: Why?
FAH: Not with the women who is the target group, no but being in the same
organization, first thing, first of all the problem is who knows more than you, wont
start acknowledge that you start knowing, what they are talking about. They will
keep on thinking that you don't know anything, Okay, they never give you a chance,
you know, they never gave me chance to do this, so whatever, they know, they know
better than you, from the beginning till after 10 years, they still know better than
you, you know, this is very annoying and aggravating, I feel its not fair what they are
doing to each other and with each other.
NP: its like hierarchy based on age and experience?
FAH: Yes, No, no, but because I am younger. Because I used to be younger, now I
have much more younger than me, but I have thing in my, that if I meet somebody
younger than me I give... I like to give them everything I know about our organization
or everything, even I learned from outside and... but some people, no, they don't,
You know, which I met, and even though even know more than me or maybe less,
we cant compare but they don't respect what I know, or at least my passion to do
12


so. You know, so now I am in the situation that whenever I see a woman who has
this passion I catch her, no matter where what her background. You know, to have a
big network of group of women who really want to help others.
NP: and do you think that this is a problem for the... to encourage the younger
women to become active?
FAH: Yes, sure, yeah, my daughter was one of them when she was in high school.
Trainee, when I used to train about women's rights, I like to, its very important, I
wish I knew what I know now before 20 years. You know. Because my life would be
different, this is why I know the important of this knowledge, you know, of things
about rights and duties and everything, because I faced the first problem when I had
a divorce. There is no right for us, nothing. I have all the papers in the world that
proves that I own all the apartments that I gave them to my husband and after he
finished he took everything from me, and filed for a divorce, and I couldn't do
anything, it just gets in his name. So, I feel we have to stand up for other women,
especially for the children.
NP: what has been the best memory of your, all the things you have done, you have
done many things but what is your best memory?
FAH: Well, everyday I have like last... in 26 august, when we had this activity to
announce about our campaign, it was the best day for me, I was very full of, very
enthusiastic, and very happy at least t see a 100 women with us, its not a medical
meeting, it is a meeting for peace, for social safety which is very unique and very
different from what we used to hear and to see 100 women, oh my god, it was
shocking, I was before we left, I went there, and I told Linda, I will be happy if there
is 20 women. Even though we have officers from the army, from the police, they
make me happy, but not as seeing this number of women standing with us, and very
happy to be part of the peace activist campaign, like what I should have say it, peace
activist campaign but its a not, we couldn't say this, we have to... you know, make it
in details more. So, for peace... for social safety.
NP: From where did you get the inspiration for this campaign? Where did you get
the idea?
FAH: Well, I told you, first I was staying here alone in the house, my son was staying
at his grandmothers in Beirut and I had as you hear now, the water pump coming
you know, filling the tanks for the water, its manually you have to turn it on and turn
it off. But it was 1:30 in the morning, and I saw, I heard the tanks were all full of
water, and the water was dripping all over the building, and I wanted to... before, I
used to go, I didn't used to think, I open the door, go and turn off the water, you
know, the electricity without thinking, but that time I stand up beside the door and I
was so afraid to open the door, you know, suddenly I don't know what happened but
I felt so frightened, to be in the house alone, at 1:30 I couldn't do this, I wish...
because I was working another project its called to stop the unemployment, you
know, you will be hearing it later hopefully, so I was really into it, and anyway, I was
13


awake so I was hoping that one of neighbors would be awake to turn off the
electricity. I couldn't do it. I stayed, stayed, and the water stayed dripping, I didn't
know what, and I went to my bedroom, putting my... ears and in the morning I felt,
my god, how frightened I am in my house, why? I never used to feel this way, you
know. I talked to some other woman, now we are frightened, I said, yes. Me too and
the other one is... I used to walk one lady tell me, I used to walk in the morning,
thank you... 5:30 in the morning, because she woke up because she has cholesterol,
but now, I keep watching the street till some people are moving, till I go to walk, she
want to walk before the sunrise, but now she can't do it anymore, she want to...
because we have too many people Syrian people, because they are bad, because we
don't know they are stranger. You know, so, everybody is afraid, and you been
hearing too many things, I told you, explosions here and there, between the Syrians
when they are doing the explosions they will be living in any place in Lebanon. So
that's what makes us very frightened, so I keep hearing this one, and I thought Oh
my god, why are we... we should do something about this thing. You cant just...
that's how it hit me, that's how it started. You know, its not just my thing or her
thing its an issue, everybody feeling it. Men and women, so, that's why we started
the campaign. And we had at the beginning when we started the campaign we
changed the questionnaires million times, because, we, because, we have many
things in Lebanon, especially corruption, you know... and we minimize it till we get
directly to target which is to stop people from carrying guns in the street, you know,
and to enforce the law. Because no body knows that we have a law, that we have
punishment, three months to three years if you just gave a complaint to the police
somebody is carrying a gun. Now I am working... I have this... the law, and now I am
going to make it like a poster, and send it to the shops, you know, so everybody will
be reading it. "Protect yourself, don't carry your gun, three years in jail", you know,
like this, whereas, to protect yourself don't carry a gun, you will stay three years in a
prison, so, I hope to do so.
NP: why do you think the government or the police is not enforcing the law?
FAH: because too many interference from political parties, from the people who
have money, you know, just one phone call, and then he will be released. But now,
after all the women will be moving, no one will listen to them, because when
somebody will say no, he has to be punished. And I... when we were talking to those
officers, and they told us, we can do just give it to "Nyabeh Ameh", Whats "Nyabeh
Ameh"? I don't know...
NP: Public prosecutor.
FAH: Yeah, public prosecutor, after that, we cant control it, you know, we can
promise you to put them, I said, just get them there 2 or 3 people, get them there,
and we will talk to the judges and this way they cant listen to any phone call they
receive. Okay, so we hope we will be...
NP: The idea is that because there is a campaign and a large number of people, to
put pressure on the authorities to do something?
14


FAH: Yes, yes, and they welcomed us very much and they said because we don't
have enough employees, you know to watch everybody and to... so you will be our
hand, they were very happy, so hopefully they will be doing this, maybe with your
help, talking about these things too, and in workshop.
NP: do you have any, have you ever had any ideas to enter parliament to work on
the political level?
FAH: Yeah... I had, last year when people were talking about the parliament thing,
actually, yeah, they asked me to., women movement from the American embassy, to
be to register my nomination, what they call it? Nomination?
NP: Nomination, yeah.
FAH: Nomination, okay, my nomination, and I told them no, I cant, we have to have
a different law to do this, I cant be instead of... in El Shoiuf Area, I will be... We have
two seats because it's all sects you know in Lebanon, and its quota, we have religion
quota for every sect, so how can we have another quota for women, from what sect,
you know, its very complicated in Lebanon, and if even I want to be register my
nomination, I be instead of Waleed Junblat or Marwan Hmaidi, and they have a long
history of giving and giving and giving, they have many, many mistakes but
everybody who works there have mistakes, people who never work have no mistake.
That's how I believe, maybe some of their mistakes are worst than other, because its
on a larger scale, but anyhow, I said, at least I need to have my family support, how
can I have my family support if I cant... but my friends they did it, they nominated
themselves in other parts of Lebanon, I met, I know many of them, but they
cancelled the parliament the election, so, no one is getting anywhere, but the idea
you know, when I had this speech about the project, I had many comments, you
should be in the parliament, and after that I went to the parliament, I was invited to
the Lebanese parliament, but... and most of the women who was giving their
comments were mostly about the quota, and some about... it was all repetition. And
some about mothers vacation, birth vacation, paid...
NP: Maternity leave, yeah.
FAH: What's the name?
NP: Its called maternity leave?
FAH: Ah, maternity leave, that's right, and that is mostly and other one about the
law of abuse, domestic abuse, I was the only one...
NP: we were talking about the quota...
FAH: Yah, no, I... many people, I told you, one of the women told them you are males
till you have a gender quota then you will become men. And when I had my turn I
15


said I told them, the government in Lebanon they self advocates about Syrian
problems, about what is happening in the neighbor problem, and that makes a big
responsibility on the municipality, because in every street in every neighborhood,
every village there is people walking around, no security to them, there is no security
for the Lebanese people, so everybody is afraid, so, we need to have from this,
parliament place, they have to make regulations, the law, I am asking what
happened to implementing the law, we need laws to be implemented, that was my...
because we want to live in a social safety environment, that was my... so some
women, saying, oh you are saying something different, because I talked from the
municipality view not from just women view, okay.
NP: Do you think its easier now for women to be active in public life?
FAH: Yes.
TAPE 3
NP: ...to the past?
FAH: of yes. Yes, now, before, maybe one year, you couldn't talk about weapons or
guns, it was a Taboo, you know I remember when I first, I remember, I show you the
picture all the organization, most of the organization staying together, I stood up and
we said first time, I said, we have to talk about the weapons in the street, the guns in
the street. They said, who is this? What is she talking about? You know, because they
are always talking about guns with Hizbullah, you know, they don't consider... it's a
taboo to talk about it in Lebanon, but because I am a wolf, a wolf. So, we always talk
about you know weapons and disarmament, so its all in my mind. So, that's how you
know the, campaign I've started because all together, all this knowledge came
intersection... with all these idea to have this campaign.
NP: will there be some people who would say we will get rid of our guns if Hizbullah
get rid of their guns first?
FAH: Well, we are not talking about the guns with political parites because we
consider it, organized, it should be...
NP: POrganized.
FAH: Organized guns, it should be, but I am not talking about this, we are talking in
different things, which is more dangerous to us in daily routine life, unorganized
guns.
NP: Okay, unfortunately, we are out of time, is there anything you want to tell me
that I didn't ask you about?
16


FAH: yeah, well, you asked me but I didn't get to it, I think the worst time of my life,
it was... you asked me about the best time of my life, the worst time of my life, even
though I am a very miserable time, it was in 19... last time Israel invaded Lebanon.
NP: In 2006?
FAH: 2006, July, yeah, July 2006, it was really, really horrible. We were like what?
What's happening? Bombing everywhere, even in Gharifeh they bombed, they
bombed every bridge, we have bridge that is more than thousands of years, very old
bridge they bombed it. They bombed every bridge so we say in Gharifeh, you know,
which is supposed to be very far, from north, from south from everywhere, and
then, they bomebed everywhere, even the bridge that you came you know, from the
moore, you know, all the bridges were bombed, everywhere. So, suddenly from
nowhere, my friends daughter we were going to her graduation but they couldn't
come to the house, because they were bombing the bridges, you know, can you
imagine there is no way to come to your house, and suddenly all the Lebanese
people moving from all other parts of Lebanon, to come to our house, to our place,
to Shouf area, to mount Lebanon, to be in the schools, so I was running around in
the schools, what do they need? I felt, my god, what is happening? You know... they
need pots and pans, so I was collecting the pots and pans from everyhouse, because
they don't have money to buy, if you don't need any pots and bad, if it is good or
bad, give it to me, you know, and we used to send it to them, some people in my
village town, my father was coocking you know, rice and beef and sending it to them
everyother day so this way they will have a good meal, so how the people were
helping eachother, it was amazing eventhough, most of them are from the south
which is... doesn't matter, you are Lebanese, you are a person, you are a human, you
know, so it was really horrible for me to feel, my god, it is 2007, you know, to have
this all over again, Israel and its...
NP: you thought it had been finished? And then it came back?
FAH: Yes, so suddenly, yeah, for no reason, we don't know, so now we have this
threat from Israel, anytime, they can make any excuse that Hizbullah did something
to them, I am not sayng anything to protect Hizbullah or againt Hizbullah, but we
want to live in peace, enough! So, this is we have... a threat, we feel very badly to
the Syrian people, but the problem is thewir numbers is over, much more than our
number, so, and everything is getting very expensive, even the bakery, the bread
bakery, are you know, getting too much work, because you know, now its not the
same number of people, they are double triple.
NP: So its difficult for Lebanon to cope with this massive refugees?
FAH: Yes, Yes, especially now there are schools for them, there are supposed to be
all those children schools. But how? Who will be paying for there... even if they put
them in elementary public school, there are no places for them? Because their
numbers is too much, so this is big problem, and you see, what will happen to us in
the winter? When all these families are all cold, no jobs for them and no school for
17


the children, so I am praying that the problem in Syria will finish soon, We are very
afraid that the States will hit Syria, because of the chemical weapons, which I am
sure they brought them to the states definitely. I feel so... because that's how
everything started, its all donation, donation, donation, and then make a big deal out
of it... its their government... they were, they work, because they don't want the gas
pipeline to come from Iran to Syria, that's why they hit Syria, everybody knows this I
mean... just the people are how they say, goat what? Goat what?
NP: In Arabic?
FAH: No, "Kabsh El Fidaa"
NP: Coat?
FAH: Goat, G, O, A, T... in English.
NP: Oh, goat
FAH: goat victims, whatever they call it, I heard it before, I don't remember it now...
NP: I don't know.
FAH: But they are victims usually, they just go between here and there, so... we are
afraid, what will happen again in the future.
NP: you feel it's a very insecure moment?
FAH: Yes, definitely, because its not the Lebanese or the Syrian decision to live like
this, it's the other governments, its an outside decisions, from other countries who
have money and power. And you know that the States whenever they have financial
economic problems, they go hit middle east country because they go hit her money
for many, many, years to come, like they did in Iraq, its not because of the Iraqi.
Because to get money for them, that's now what they are doing to Syria, before,
they found gas in Syria, no body will come close to Syria, because it was not any
threat, but now... everybody, it's a threat so they are destroying it... don't you think?
NP: like a repetition of things that happened in the past, like a pattern?
FAH: yes, it's a pattern, yes, it's the same pattern, the same pattern, on and on and
on, yes, yes, yes, definitely. Its like, ill tell you what happened to Gaza, why they
have been living in peace for a long time and nothing happened. And then suddenly,
Israel started bombing Gaza, because they have pipeline in the see and the British
company working their for the gas, they said they will give the money, they have the
contract with the people who are living in the beach... you know this story, right?
NP: I know about the gas that is under the sea...
18


FAH: and they refused to make any agreement with Israel, the people, and they said,
we have it to the people who live on the beach beside the sea, so Israel start
bombing Gaza all the time, to tell the British company that we control this part, so
how many people dies, its nothing... just war for the fuel and the Arab countries they
are in hell, because they have fuel and now we were living in Lebanon peacefully, we
never been living peacefully, but now we are going to hell because we have gas in
Lebanon, now we don't know what will happen to us.
NP: are you afraid?
FAH: Yes. From the future, because how many wars we had?
NP: In Lebanon?
FAH: I'm talking civil war, not just with Israel, but we don't know when Israel will
come and ... maybe now, that's what happened last time, there is no time, no
reason, she making a reason and they just hit, yrah. But now I don't think they will
hit us this moment because they are afraid of Iran will move, but they want to
destroy Syria, this way to destroy Iran and Hizbullah, and the rest will., will be killed
as a barrier,
NP: Too much war
FAH: Yeah, yeah, too much greed for the fuel, too much war yeah, because there is
no woman in the decision making process..
NP: Do you think if there was more women in the decision making process there
would be less war?
FAH: yeah, if there were plenty of women, a number of women, not one or two, like
Margaret Thatcher, she was a woman in a masculine idea because she was alone,
but with others with her, they would be working as a woman, but not as a man,
because I feel I go to the construction site because all of them are men, I work as a
man, I don't work as a woman, you know, I know from myself when I go there by the
construction site, but if I have 2 or 3 women with me no, it will be different, you just
have to fit in with what you have, but if you have... that's why it is so important to
have quota because a number of women will help, its very important. Because till
now all the women in the decision-making they are not working as a woman, they
are replacing the men, don't you think?
NP: I guess they are working with the system that they have?
FAH: Yeah, yeah. And that's how to fit.
NP: I think unfortunately we have to stop
19

Interview with Ferial Abu Hamdan
2013

TAPE 1

Nicola Pratt: great, can we begin, could you tell us where and when were you born?

Ferial Abu Hamdan: I was born in Amman, Jordan in 1955, 10th march. I have a partner twin, a boy and a girl.

NP: triplets.

FAH: No, two with me, I am a girl and he is a boy.

NP: Ah, okay, twins. Okay, I didn’t know that.

FAH: yeah, in Jordan, we were living in Jordan, my father was working there, although he is Lebanese and my mother Lebanese, they lived in Jordan.

NP: So what was your father doing?

FAH: he is a contractor, he’s been working there for a long, long time, and my father now is more than 100 years old.

NP: Really?

FAH: Yeah, yes, and he is still very busy and you know, maybe next time we will let you meet him when we go to Garifeh.

NP: In Gods willing.

FAH: he is really nice, he traveled a lot he done many things in his life, he had the royal awards from Jordan because he built one of the towns called Ma’an, in a very short time after the flood came and ruined all the city, so he got it, he rebuilt it, as a contractor.

NP: And how long did you stay in Jordan?

FAH: Well, I want to tell you something first, I have 7 brothers and we are 7 brothers and 4 girls and 7 boys, okay. I stayed in Jordan till 1975, till I studied I went to England I told you, then I went back to the States, I studied architecture in Oklahoma university.

NP: your first degree you studied… its in Jordan, no, no, you never finished…

FAH: NO, I finished high school.

NP: Only high school, Okay.

FAH: I finished high school in Jordan, and then I went to… I was supposed to study in the American University of Beirut, architecture, but the war, the civil war have started here, so I had a brother studying in England, and so I went there and stayed in Colchester, I wasn’t happy, so I have my twin brother in the state, so he said, why don’t you come over. So, I thought we will be living together me and him in the same apartment, but no, the first week we had big fight, me and him, so I moved to the dorms so I never see him. We didn’t live with eachother.

NP: Okay, okay, so growing up, when you were growing up, what was the first memory that you have of events outside of the home, political events?

FAH: The war in Jordan, there was a war in 1964, there was an invasion of Israel to Jordan, we ran away and we came to Lebanon, I remember we lost my father, but we didn’t, we thought we lost our father, and my mother, actually, first time, they kidnapped my father, they stole his car when he was coming back home.

NP: Who kidnapped you father?

FAH: Palestinians, they want to… they stole his car, they were two men, and one man want to kill him, to shoot him, the other told him, just leave him alone, this is a desert he will die anyway, so they left him, and didn’t shoot him, so it was the first time, and the second time we thought we lost both os us, my mother and my father because we cme here… they sent us to Lebanon because of the war in 1964, I remember…

NP: 64 or 67?

FAH: 67, 67, and we came to Lebanon and my mother stayed with my father because of the first incident that he had, and we lost contact with them so we were crying and we thought, we have lost both of them, and then after one month, suddenly, they showed up, and they been through a lot of misery and you know, so, that’s I have my first… I remember first time I heard Jamal Abdel Nasser it was in the radio because at day time, and he was talking about the war and Sinai when they fought with Israel. It was my first experience of political thing and then after that I start listening to the radio when kind Hussein was talking about the people and what he would do to release Jordan from all the Palestinian, they came to have their replacement country in Jordan, so I was there. And this is the second time, and the third war was… I’ve been in Lebanon since 1985, I came through the civil war and my husband was in the army, an officer in the army, so I had worst time of my life. Because all the time there is all these militia in the streets, Amal movement, the Palestinian, what’s their name? the Lebanese Forces, and all of them have guns in the street and fighting, and I had a very bad experience with those things, so, the last war that was really, really horrible after we finished… no, after I got married in 1985, I lived in Lebanon, I passed all these horrible time, and I remember when the Syrian people, the Syrian army came to Lebanon, I was the one who was throwing rice on them because we were so happy they are the savior of Lebanese people because the conflict between all the parties was horrible, and many dead people you see all around you, and once I was cooking and I have… it was a peaceful day and I just heard a bomb, very strong, shook all the building in Beirut and then I heard too many screaming, there was a man and a woman, my neighbors in the second building having coffee in their balcony in the first floor in the building where they were living. The bomb came to them and they just died. It was…I had a nervous breakdown I went to the hospital, I stayed there for one week, a nervous breakdown is horrible, it was all the time vomiting too much, unstable, it shock me like hell. And that was before I got any of my children, then after, I felt better, and after one year I get my first baby, and all the time I was carrying him, I was running from Beirut to come to the mountains, because I am afraid I have a bomb coming to my apartment because my husband was all the time not there, because he was in the army, when there is war he is supposed to be in the offices or wherever they send him. So I was all the time alone with my child and then when we felt… when the Syrian army came I was very happy, first they were really very good, we felt that, Oh my god, it is now normal, no body is carrying guns in the streets.

NP: Which year was that?

FAH: I don’t remember, maybe, 90, maybe. And then they became, they changed to monsters, each one in the army, from the Syrian army, I remember once I was with my husband in the car and there is another in front of us an old man driving and a Syrian army, was giving the direction to the cars to walk, and he didn’t see him, this old man, and so he started screaming at him, this Syrian, and he came, when that old man stopped, he came close to his car and he started to beat this old man. And I was behind him and I was screaming like him, I wanted to come off my car and to stop him, and I remember my husband wont let me, because he will shoot you, he tell me. So I start being afraid of them instead of felt that they are came to make the stability, and now we have, I felt that, oh my god, they are… really, they didn’t come to let us live in peace, no, they want to control everything we do, even when we are in the streets, the situation was becoming very, very bad in Lebanon, till Hariri came. And I remember when he came we didn’t know who he was, and he started doing all these marvelous things, building downtowns, and he made so many things to stop the war, between all the parties, but we couldn’t… but the Syrians stayed in Lebanon, for a long time, then I start listening to politics, who is this, who is that, you know, to be… to know what is going around me and so no body let them leave Lebanon until he died, the big demonstration, that I was one of the people in the streets, and when they left…

NP: In 2005.

FAH: in 2005, yeah. I was in the street, yeah.

NP: just to go back to when you were younger, so you left Jordan in 1975 and you went to England and then you went to America, and you studied architecture in America…

FAH: environmental design.

NP: Sorry.

FAH: Is aid architecture and environmental design.

NP: Environmental design, sorry, and why did you decide to return to Lebanon.

FAH: No, I got married, you know, it happened, I didn’t know how bad it is in Lebanon then. So I got married and he is in the Army, so he couldn’t leave, so all the time I was begging him to leave the army, sometimes he agree, and sometimes his parents refuse the idea and then he change his mind, so you know, on and off. And that’s how life goes.

NP: Did you meet your husband in America?

FAH: No, he is my relative, and I used to see him when I was young, I used to see him when I=we used to come visit in summer time in Lebanon, but no, I never have any relationship with him.

NP: Okay, and how did you feel about getting married and getting back to Lebanon?

FAH: Very miserable, I wish I didn’t do it, but I am happy now, I had all my children, but no, I never had any good day, because everyday is suffering, everyday its miserable to just keep the day pass safely as I could, especially because we stayed many years… I used to live in the 9th floor and there was no electricity and no water. Because no electricity there is no elevator and the pump wont pump the water, so I didn’t have water on the 9th floor, not even… so I used to carry my children up and down the stairs and sometimes I came up to, the mountain to stay with his parents for you know, few days and then go back to Beirut when its settled, because it was on and off, on and off you know, so and then it goes back again as it was before, so I felt my god, I know I am going to die one day but I am not going to keep my life being afraid all time of dying, you know, it hit me, why I am being afraid, what happens is going to happen, you know why should I all the time be paranoid, and nothing if anything, except this day finished safely, this day finished safely, oh my god, thank you. It’s a blessing if you have a day finished safely without any of my children get really hurt, but I was all the time nagging on my husband to leave the army to go live in any other country, but he couldn’t he refused to.

NP: When you were living in America, did you follow events in America, about what was happening in Lebanon, or did you hear the news from your family? Did you hear from your family in Lebanon?

FAH: No, I used to hear yes, in Lebanon, but you know, I didn’t care, its not… I didn’t think of it. I just hear it and that’s it, something I passed, because we been hearing when we were in Jordan, we were hearing too many things happening in Lebanon, not the first time, but I wouldn’t even care, you know, but when I came to Lebanon, I found out its really, oh my god, you cant live… because I have choice to live in another country, but some people who are living there all the time, here in Lebanon all the time, they don’t know any better. Because I know how to live a better situation, because I was always in shock and paranoid.

NP: and when did you… during this period were you involved in any social work or public activities?

FAH: No, no, the only thing I was all the time thinking to have my bag ready if any, you know, something will destroy my house, where I am going to run away, you know, to have the medication for my children, the papers, to run away, that’s the only thing I used to thin all the time. That’s… don’t have anything more than that at that time. And then when things settled a little bit I start in my balcony in Beirut, I was living in the 9th floor, in front of me there was this land that all the people around throw their dumps in it especially you know, furniture, all the materials that the building was destroyed they throw it there. So, it was annoying to me and I found out that I can change it to a park. To a parking car, so because of the law that any empty land, you can do this if you have signature from the neighbors around. So it was the first social thing I did. It was the first thing. I wrote the proposal and I let the concierge in the building to go to other buildings because I was afraid to go, I don’t know, then to sign it and then I went to the municipality of Beirut and I submit it and they ordered the owner… they couldn’t rack back the owner of this land, so they called me and said you can do it on your own and use the money, when you have cars parked. At that time, my husband was making fun of me, who is going to pay for parking for this place? And so, somebody came and brought these trucks and they cleaned all the land and they have somebody a person there to control it and after one week I was very surprised to see it full of cars, you know, that’s very neat and everybody is paying for their cars to be parked there, so my husband was like oh my god…. And then the owner, it was one of the relatives, and then the owner came, and so it was the first thing that cleaned the area around me. And then after I did this…

NP: Sorry, can I just ask why you felt it was important?

FAH: Because the view and the smell, and you know, I thought, how many rats and how many things between all those buildings, just this empty space that’s full of dump, you see, and so that’s for health reasons, and for scenery and then, sorry!

NP: Bless you!

FAH: Thank you, and then my neighbors in the building, they ask me to become the leader of the committee for the building committee and then I start fixing the stairs and the gate, I had security lock for the door outside, the inter phone you know, started doing these things and collecting money every month from the neighbors just for the maintenance of the building… so I started having meeting, I was the only woman, and there are others been. And that’s how I started, but this time I have been introduced to Anisa Najar, that was 5, 6, around maybe 1992, at that time. And I used to like her a lot and know her experience in life.

NP: she must have been a lot younger than…

FAH: yes, and me, sharing… because I don’t have any relatives, I don’t have any of my family in Beirut, so I need to know somebody, and she is very educated, I learned a lot from her.

NP: How did you meet her?

FAH: one woman introduced me to her, they told me there is a village welfare society and if you want to come to this organization to be… I met her, and she found me you know, much younger than the rest of the women, so she invited me to her house, and I started going to visit her, at that time I didn’t know how to drive in Beirut, it was really tough. But I used to have a driver, because my husband is an officer, so he used to drive me, especially I used to go at night, my neighbors daughter she used to stay and watch TV and my children would be sleeping, and my husband at work, so I used to visit her, Anisa Najar. And he was always making fun of me, I would understand if you are going to any place, but why would you go to an old lady? Spending time with her, but it was my pleasure.
NP: She was living in Beirut as well?

FAH: yes, yes, I used to go visit her and talk with her sometimes she have few women at the same age as her or maybe a little bit younger than her, each one is really important you know, so I was exposed to very intellectual group of women who have devotion for the social life. You know, they are, they want to do, to change things. I used to listen to them talking about many things that they should do.

NP: What did you think at the time, when you were listening to them?

FAH: I felt, well, in the beginning I was so happy just to know true people, intellectual people, because my neighbors in Beirut they are not my standard of thinking because non of them have been studied or finished schools, they just want to raise children you know that’s it, I wanted to be… I was happy just to be with this group at the beginning, and then I became with the WILF, we start the meeting with WILF, and…

NP: Which year was that do you think?

FAH: 1990, 91, 92, maybe. And I remember when we used to go there; they have letters, from WILF international about maybe what is happening with women in Vietnam, I was so… oh my god, it expanded my vision, and so I was just a listener I want to grasp anything I hear, I never used to talk a lot or have any discussion, because I am very happy just to hear what I am hearing and to get to know these ladies, and start being with them I the meeting. Sometimes one of the ladies invites, you know, the others, in her house, and sometimes I used to go sometimes not, depending on my children’s… they have exams or… you know, but I was happy.
Once I went to with Anisa Najar and she called me and she said, we need to go, there is a meeting with Naela Muawad, she was in the parliament.. the Lebanese parliament.

NP: She is the wife of…

FAH: Rene Muawad who was killed. He was the president of Lebanon for one day, and she said, she was having this campaign about want women to share in the municipality, and I didn’t know what was the occasion, but I took Anisa because I had a driver, I took Mrs. Anisa and we went to that place, and I met Naela Muawad, she was talking to everybody, and when we finished, she was encouraging everybody to go talk… to share with the municipality. At that time I had my office, I had an architecture firm in Khalda, I had partnership with a civil engineer and we were working fine, and everybody was talking about you know, being municipality for the first time, for a long, long time to have the election.

NP: this is to be the first election since the war!

FAH: Since the war, yeah. And I start thinking all the time when I come to Gharifeh, my hometown, this one should be here, somebody has somebody has to do this here… I have too many thoughts about everything. Then you know, I start writing them, I’ll be doing the dishes and I have something on my mind, so I go and write, write… I have many papers, you know, written on them what should be done to Gharifeh, but I was thinking of, maybe I should tell somebody to do them, I never thought of me being in the municipality so when I went with Anisa to see Naela Muawad, I saw she want the woman to be part of the municipality election, and then aftet everybody have finished Mrs. Anisa came to her close to her, and she was telling her, we have this lady here she is an architect and I was telling Mrs. Anisa, I wish somebody… she was talking to her and she told her, and Naela Muawad looked at me and said, we want you, you’re the ideal person to be in the municipality, I said, what? Me? I was out of space, I mean, its not… I’m not even thinking about it, I am writing what we should d but not for me but for someone else, and she said no, you should, you are… we need engineers, you should be in the municipality, so second day, third day, and I start writing more, working more on the papers, working more about you know, what should be done in Gharifeh, so I think what is the most important thing, what’s famous what is people living on, which is live, olive trees, so, I thought of doing, I thought its important to make cooperative, you know, for the farmers for women, you know, I wrote this thing and then nice in my office, i as staying there, and I thought, yeah, why not me? Maybe I thought it will be like a market for me, to have more projects to work in my firm, so I called my father, my father was in Gharifeh then, what do you think if a woman came to the elections in Gharifeh? Is there anything against this? So my father was telling me, oh, you mean you want to be in the election? I said, what do you think? Is there anything against it? He said, no, nothing against being a woman in the election, but this one you cant say it in the phone, you have to come to see me. So I went to Gharifeh the second day to talk with my father, my father before he was in the municipality, from a long time, he came once from Jordan to settle down in Lebanon, and then he thought everything is becoming you know safe and everything fine, and he lost so much money anyway, but he was in the municipality in Gharifeh, and then he resigned and went back to Jordan. But he never told me I didn’t know about it, so he said okay come over, so I went there, and I remember I sat and he was in front of me, its like I felt like I am in a chair of confess.

NP: Confessional.

FAH: confessional, yes, he was asking me, why do you want? Why you do this? He was, he look at me and said, who gave you this? And I said, I did, and he was shocked, he said you have to do all this. He said, are you sure you can do this, I said okay, I don’t mind, but I thought I want to talk with you because I don’t want to just... because everyone is talking about…

TAPE 2

FAH:… having women in the elections I want to see if you are capable for it, but I think you are more than capable of doing it, so he gave me his trust you know, and I faced my husband and his parents and everybody was so proud, yes, yes. And my husband he didn’t say yes or no, because he is army anyhow, he can’t vote. So, I remember when I went to get my papers done and brought them to the place where you have to register, I was few women, in all the mount Lebanon, and…

NP: You mean few women to stand in the municipality?

FAH: Yeah, to… yeah.

NP: Do you know how many women might have stood? Yeah, in Lebanon.

FAH: In Lebanon, maybe around 75.

NP: Okay.

FAH: In all of Lebanon. And after that, in the election day, I remember I don’t know what I am doing. Okay, when I talked with my father, I came back to my office and I typed all the papers I start collecting this ideas here and there, you know, and I wanted someone to proof read it because my Arabic is not very good. You know, and if people want to read it, I found somebody to proof read it for me, and I made too many copies and I went to Gharifeh and I start sending them, I gave them to a boy to send them to everybody in Gharifeh, no body knows me, because I was away all the time, and then I was living in Beirut. But I remember I used to go drive in my car, and I would see one person reading my paper, my project proposal, it was the first time ever in the municipality, someone have projects you know to do, and aomebody would be reading and the others would be listening, 3 or 4 people here and there, and there. And then they would say, who is Ferial? Ah maybe, her husband is… Her father is… you know, like this. But I used to hear them and no one even know me, but I used to hear them sitting in my car hiding, to see the response. So, it was very good, very nice adventure for me, I felt adventure, my husband said its an adventure, if I didn’t get elected at least I will be well known as an architect, so I would have more job…

NP: It was a win win situation, a win win situation.

FAH: Yeah. And then I won, I had very high.

NP: were you surprised?

FAH: Yes, very surprised, because and even the Progressive Nationalistic party, Waleed Junblat, they sent me, sent for me, I was very surprised that, they call me and want to have an interview and they said they want… because they already have named a person from their political party to be the mayor, and then after that I came, so they said, what do you think? We will give him three years and then we will give you the other three years. Me, I don’t know anything about politics, No, who are you to decide? They said, what? They were shocked about my stupidity. No, let the people decide, who are you? Everybody said no, just me. And we want you to do this… yes, I will. I will, I was so sure of myself I was so stupid. So, I refused to take three years you know for me, so I never got to be a mayor, not for three years even, not for one year, and that’s how I started the social work, you know, that’s from the broader… you know I did many., many things, my CV is full of… its not activities, I don’t call it activities, actions in the field work, I worked so much, I got an award, I told you, 2004, United Nations award, this is it, you want to see it?

NP: Okay.

FAH: 2004, for the volunteer work.

NP: That’s lovely. That’s lovely.

FAH: Yeah, and they had a big reception, you know, and they gave it to me after, because I made so much, I trained so many women about processed food, I brought the organic farming, you know, I did many things. I told you this in 2007.

NP: Yes, but now we have to record it on the tape. So, this is in 2004, that you won this award.

FAH: Yeah…

NP: And this award is given annually, its an annual award?

FAH: Yeah and…

NP: How many other people won the award?

FAH: 12, 12 people in all Lebanon. Yeah.

NP: So you are one of 12. Okay, and were they also other women there, or were you the only woman?

FAH: Yeah, I remember I don’t know, I didn’t see any women, no, yes there is one, I got it because of what I did with the agriculture thing, they got it for something else, but for the agriculture thing, it was the only woman, so…

NP: Congratulations. You must be very proud.

FAH: Thank you, this is because I got too many projects from UNDP, and all of them were very successful, once I got 23 ambassadors to Gharifeh and they were very impressed of what I got, I got tractor from the Japanese embassy, to the farmers of Gharifeh, I got 11 computer that was very long time ago, it doesn’t look like the computer now. And have trained too many people to work on computer, so they recognized my name to the UN volunteer and I got this award.

NP: That’s amazing.

FAH: But since then I haven’t been working with UNDP a lot, little bit, not major things like I used to before.

NP: Can I just ask, what was the motivation for you in doing all this work? Why?

FAH: Its my passion. Why? I just feel, I feel, you know I am very happy to do so. I mean when I am talking about it it gives me pleasure, you know, I always tell the people don’t think that people will appreciate what you do, they are not going to appreciate… but it makes me very happy to see how I changed peoples lives. Do you know Linda? You met Linda?

NP: Yeah

FAH: I met her maybe this is the second week, a month, its not very long, I just met her. You cant imagine how I changed her life drastically, it was her first time to stand infront of people and speak. Even though she has the quality, the… she is the kind of person to do so but she never had a chance, and especially when she came to my house, the first time I met her, she was standing here telling about her life and how she lost her husband and how she is so sad and she is all the time crying and crying, and she was crying in my house, and I told her what do you think we will do… this is… and then she is doing great, it’s the first time, now, I felt her she is down, she is not as lively as she, maybe its very long time or because we had this meeting, the WILF meeting in her house, it was on Thursday and she worked so hard on it. You should see how many people, 50 women, were in her home, she cooked for everybody. It was big lunch for everybody; probably she is still tired from that you know. And I have meet so many women that tell me they now have their own business of selling processed food, the traditional food in cans to the other people, and sometimes that makes me happy to do, because I don’t like to help people, if they are hungry to give them meal, no. I believe that this, we have a saying, if someone is hungry don’t give them fish, teach them how to fish.

NP: To fish.

FAH: I really believe so, and in the UNDP project, always when they have an interview with me I used to tell them, its so important what they are doing because they are really changing the people’s life, because I can see it, I can see it. I remember the first time we have an interview, I told you I work with the people I see their life change but in WILF, I don’t see their lives change, but in this project I am working, I feel their life is going to change.

NP: The project… the safety and security project.

FAH: Yeah, yes. Womens safety, social safety campaign, because it depends on how the reflection of the people when they were filling all these questionnaire, how they were really happy, yes we are all afraid, I am afraid and you are afraid, and the other one, we are you know… its not a case, its an issue for many people a group of people, which means it is an issue, so we are going to do something about it hopefully.

NP: So, you worked particularly to help women, why?

FAH: Not women, no, I helped farmers, I didn’t just help women. Men and women and children I didn’t, its not… but this campaign is for women, after I been… the American embassy have sent me to the States to, for the election of Obama, I stayed one month there, and we traveled to many states to have… observe the election and to learn about it, and I became an observer here in the parliament in the election here in Lebanon., and I saw women how they are very left out in everything. And because of WILF and what we are doing all together I feel its about time, now that I work with women, well, because as I always say, they are more than half of the society and then they are not doing anything, you know, we should all work together, at least as a peace activist. Which is… they are very willing to do, but they want to know the knowledge, the know how to do it, I think I will find a way to teach them and reach this point I hope.

NP: So, would you say that your motivations are humanitarian?

FAH: Yes, definitely, yeah. The human rights, well on Facebook, they say what’s your religion and I say human rights. So, I believe so. Yeah.

NP: and when did you start first to think about human rights or…

FAH: Human rights, I think since I was in school, I always think about… no, even in my house, when I was young because I have a boy brother, the same age like me, he can do this, but I cant do this, he is allowed to do it because he is a boy and I am not, so all the time there are people in the house, and all the time arguing why him and why not me, so… this is…

NP: What did your parents say when you asked why he can do this and I cant?

FAH: they say, because you are a girl and I say, so… why? And I was much smarter than him in school, I used to get the better grades and always you know, everything I do I used to be better than him, he was very slow. And he has too many activities anything besides studying I was more serious in what I do. So, but even though they did not respect what I want but the good thing is that my father all the time was arguing when he wouldn’t… I am not convinced all the time, and the conversation with me would be, go to your room. I said okay, I will go to my room but I know you are mistaken. You are wrong, because you are wrong, because there is no excuse in what you are saying, I was all the time we would have this kind of argument in the house, specially I am doing it. Rebellion, till now.

NP: What would you say of the greatest challenges that you faced in the… in your public work, or being able to work socialy?

FAH: dealing with women.

NP: is it the greatest challenge?

FAH: Yes, my god, dealing with women is really, really hard.

NP: Why?

FAH: Not with the women who is the target group, no but being in the same organization, first thing, first of all the problem is who knows more than you, wont start acknowledge that you start knowing, what they are talking about. They will keep on thinking that you don’t know anything, Okay, they never give you a chance, you know, they never gave me chance to do this, so whatever, they know, they know better than you, from the beginning till after 10 years, they still know better than you, you know, this is very annoying and aggravating, I feel its not fair what they are doing to each other and with each other.

NP: its like hierarchy based on age and experience?

FAH: Yes, No, no, but because I am younger. Because I used to be younger, now I have much more younger than me, but I have thing in my, that if I meet somebody younger than me I give… I like to give them everything I know about our organization or everything, even I learned from outside and… but some people, no, they don’t, You know, which I met, and even though even know more than me or maybe less, we cant compare but they don’t respect what I know, or at least my passion to do so. You know, so now I am in the situation that whenever I see a woman who has this passion I catch her, no matter where what her background. You know, to have a big network of group of women who really want to help others.

NP: and do you think that this is a problem for the… to encourage the younger women to become active?

FAH: Yes, sure, yeah, my daughter was one of them when she was in high school. Trainee, when I used to train about women’s rights, I like to, its very important, I wish I knew what I know now before 20 years. You know. Because my life would be different, this is why I know the important of this knowledge, you know, of things about rights and duties and everything, because I faced the first problem when I had a divorce. There is no right for us, nothing. I have all the papers in the world that proves that I own all the apartments that I gave them to my husband and after he finished he took everything from me, and filed for a divorce, and I couldn’t do anything, it just gets in his name. So, I feel we have to stand up for other women, especially for the children.

NP: what has been the best memory of your, all the things you have done, you have done many things but what is your best memory?

FAH: Well, everyday I have like last… in 26 august, when we had this activity to announce about our campaign, it was the best day for me, I was very full of, very enthusiastic, and very happy at least t see a 100 women with us, its not a medical meeting, it is a meeting for peace, for social safety which is very unique and very different from what we used to hear and to see 100 women, oh my god, it was shocking, I was before we left, I went there, and I told Linda, I will be happy if there is 20 women. Even though we have officers from the army, from the police, they make me happy, but not as seeing this number of women standing with us, and very happy to be part of the peace activist campaign, like what I should have say it, peace activist campaign but its a not, we couldn’t say this, we have to… you know, make it in details more. So, for peace… for social safety.

NP: From where did you get the inspiration for this campaign? Where did you get the idea?

FAH: Well, I told you, first I was staying here alone in the house, my son was staying at his grandmothers in Beirut and I had as you hear now, the water pump coming you know, filling the tanks for the water, its manually you have to turn it on and turn it off. But it was 1:30 in the morning, and I saw, I heard the tanks were all full of water, and the water was dripping all over the building, and I wanted to… before, I used to go, I didn’t used to think, I open the door, go and turn off the water, you know, the electricity without thinking, but that time I stand up beside the door and I was so afraid to open the door, you know, suddenly I don’t know what happened but I felt so frightened, to be in the house alone, at 1:30 I couldn’t do this, I wish… because I was working another project its called to stop the unemployment, you know, you will be hearing it later hopefully, so I was really into it, and anyway, I was awake so I was hoping that one of neighbors would be awake to turn off the electricity. I couldn’t do it. I stayed, stayed, and the water stayed dripping, I didn’t know what, and I went to my bedroom, putting my… ears and in the morning I felt, my god, how frightened I am in my house, why? I never used to feel this way, you know. I talked to some other woman, now we are frightened, I said, yes. Me too and the other one is… I used to walk one lady tell me, I used to walk in the morning, thank you… 5:30 in the morning, because she woke up because she has cholesterol, but now, I keep watching the street till some people are moving, till I go to walk, she want to walk before the sunrise, but now she can’t do it anymore, she want to… because we have too many people Syrian people, because they are bad, because we don’t know they are stranger. You know, so, everybody is afraid, and you been hearing too many things, I told you, explosions here and there, between the Syrians when they are doing the explosions they will be living in any place in Lebanon. So that’s what makes us very frightened, so I keep hearing this one, and I thought Oh my god, why are we… we should do something about this thing. You cant just… that’s how it hit me, that’s how it started. You know, its not just my thing or her thing its an issue, everybody feeling it. Men and women, so, that’s why we started the campaign. And we had at the beginning when we started the campaign we changed the questionnaires million times, because, we, because, we have many things in Lebanon, especially corruption, you know… and we minimize it till we get directly to target which is to stop people from carrying guns in the street, you know, and to enforce the law. Because no body knows that we have a law, that we have punishment, three months to three years if you just gave a complaint to the police somebody is carrying a gun. Now I am working… I have this… the law, and now I am going to make it like a poster, and send it to the shops, you know, so everybody will be reading it. “Protect yourself, don’t carry your gun, three years in jail”, you know, like this, whereas, to protect yourself don’t carry a gun, you will stay three years in a prison, so, I hope to do so.

NP: why do you think the government or the police is not enforcing the law?

FAH: because too many interference from political parties, from the people who have money, you know, just one phone call, and then he will be released. But now, after all the women will be moving, no one will listen to them, because when somebody will say no, he has to be punished. And I… when we were talking to those officers, and they told us, we can do just give it to “Nyabeh Ameh”, Whats “Nyabeh Ameh”? I don’t know…

NP: Public prosecutor.

FAH: Yeah, public prosecutor, after that, we cant control it, you know, we can promise you to put them, I said, just get them there 2 or 3 people, get them there, and we will talk to the judges and this way they cant listen to any phone call they receive. Okay, so we hope we will be…

NP: The idea is that because there is a campaign and a large number of people, to put pressure on the authorities to do something?

FAH: Yes, yes, and they welcomed us very much and they said because we don’t have enough employees, you know to watch everybody and to… so you will be our hand, they were very happy, so hopefully they will be doing this, maybe with your help, talking about these things too, and in workshop.

NP: do you have any, have you ever had any ideas to enter parliament to work on the political level?

FAH: Yeah… I had, last year when people were talking about the parliament thing, actually, yeah, they asked me to.. women movement from the American embassy, to be to register my nomination, what they call it? Nomination?

NP: Nomination, yeah.

FAH: Nomination, okay, my nomination, and I told them no, I cant, we have to have a different law to do this, I cant be instead of… in El Shoiuf Area, I will be… We have two seats because it’s all sects you know in Lebanon, and its quota, we have religion quota for every sect, so how can we have another quota for women, from what sect, you know, its very complicated in Lebanon, and if even I want to be register my nomination, I be instead of Waleed Junblat or Marwan Hmaidi, and they have a long history of giving and giving and giving, they have many, many mistakes but everybody who works there have mistakes, people who never work have no mistake. That’s how I believe, maybe some of their mistakes are worst than other, because its on a larger scale, but anyhow, I said, at least I need to have my family support, how can I have my family support if I cant… but my friends they did it, they nominated themselves in other parts of Lebanon, I met, I know many of them, but they cancelled the parliament the election, so, no one is getting anywhere, but the idea you know, when I had this speech about the project, I had many comments, you should be in the parliament, and after that I went to the parliament, I was invited to the Lebanese parliament, but… and most of the women who was giving their comments were mostly about the quota, and some about… it was all repetition. And some about mothers vacation, birth vacation, paid…

NP: Maternity leave, yeah.

FAH: What’s the name?

NP: Its called maternity leave?

FAH: Ah, maternity leave, that’s right, and that is mostly and other one about the law of abuse, domestic abuse, I was the only one…

NP: we were talking about the quota…

FAH: Yah, no, I… many people, I told you, one of the women told them you are males till you have a gender quota then you will become men. And when I had my turn I said I told them, the government in Lebanon they self advocates about Syrian problems, about what is happening in the neighbor problem, and that makes a big responsibility on the municipality, because in every street in every neighborhood, every village there is people walking around, no security to them, there is no security for the Lebanese people, so everybody is afraid, so, we need to have from this, parliament place, they have to make regulations, the law, I am asking what happened to implementing the law, we need laws to be implemented, that was my… because we want to live in a social safety environment, that was my… so some women, saying, oh you are saying something different, because I talked from the municipality view not from just women view, okay.

NP: Do you think its easier now for women to be active in public life?

FAH: Yes.

TAPE 3

NP: …to the past?

FAH: of yes. Yes, now, before, maybe one year, you couldn’t talk about weapons or guns, it was a Taboo, you know I remember when I first, I remember, I show you the picture all the organization, most of the organization staying together, I stood up and we said first time, I said, we have to talk about the weapons in the street, the guns in the street. They said, who is this? What is she talking about? You know, because they are always talking about guns with Hizbullah, you know, they don’t consider… it’s a taboo to talk about it in Lebanon, but because I am a wolf, a wolf. So, we always talk about you know weapons and disarmament, so its all in my mind. So, that’s how you know the, campaign I’ve started because all together, all this knowledge came intersection… with all these idea to have this campaign.

NP: will there be some people who would say we will get rid of our guns if Hizbullah get rid of their guns first?

FAH: Well, we are not talking about the guns with political parites because we consider it, organized, it should be…

NP: POrganized.

FAH: Organized guns, it should be, but I am not talking about this, we are talking in different things, which is more dangerous to us in daily routine life, unorganized guns.

NP: Okay, unfortunately, we are out of time, is there anything you want to tell me that I didn’t ask you about?

FAH: yeah, well, you asked me but I didn’t get to it, I think the worst time of my life, it was… you asked me about the best time of my life, the worst time of my life, even though I am a very miserable time, it was in 19… last time Israel invaded Lebanon.

NP: In 2006?

FAH: 2006, July, yeah, July 2006, it was really, really horrible. We were like what? What’s happening? Bombing everywhere, even in Gharifeh they bombed, they bombed every bridge, we have bridge that is more than thousands of years, very old bridge they bombed it. They bombed every bridge so we say in Gharifeh, you know, which is supposed to be very far, from north, from south from everywhere, and then, they bomebed everywhere, even the bridge that you came you know, from the moore, you know, all the bridges were bombed, everywhere. So, suddenly from nowhere, my friends daughter we were going to her graduation but they couldn’t come to the house, because they were bombing the bridges, you know, can you imagine there is no way to come to your house, and suddenly all the Lebanese people moving from all other parts of Lebanon, to come to our house, to our place, to Shouf area, to mount Lebanon, to be in the schools, so I was running around in the schools, what do they need? I felt, my god, what is happening? You know… they need pots and pans, so I was collecting the pots and pans from everyhouse, because they don’t have money to buy, if you don’t need any pots and bad, if it is good or bad, give it to me, you know, and we used to send it to them, some people in my village town, my father was coocking you know, rice and beef and sending it to them everyother day so this way they will have a good meal, so how the people were helping eachother, it was amazing eventhough, most of them are from the south which is… doesn’t matter, you are Lebanese, you are a person, you are a human, you know, so it was really horrible for me to feel, my god, it is 2007, you know, to have this all over again, Israel and its…

NP: you thought it had been finished? And then it came back?

FAH: Yes, so suddenly, yeah, for no reason, we don’t know, so now we have this threat from Israel, anytime, they can make any excuse that Hizbullah did something to them, I am not sayng anything to protect Hizbullah or againt Hizbullah, but we want to live in peace, enough! So, this is we have… a threat, we feel very badly to the Syrian people, but the problem is thewir numbers is over, much more than our number, so, and everything is getting very expensive, even the bakery, the bread bakery, are you know, getting too much work, because you know, now its not the same number of people, they are double triple.

NP: So its difficult for Lebanon to cope with this massive refugees?

FAH: Yes, Yes, especially now there are schools for them, there are supposed to be all those children schools. But how? Who will be paying for there… even if they put them in elementary public school, there are no places for them? Because their numbers is too much, so this is big problem, and you see, what will happen to us in the winter? When all these families are all cold, no jobs for them and no school for the children, so I am praying that the problem in Syria will finish soon, We are very afraid that the States will hit Syria, because of the chemical weapons, which I am sure they brought them to the states definitely. I feel so… because that’s how everything started, its all donation, donation, donation, and then make a big deal out of it… its their government… they were, they work, because they don’t want the gas pipeline to come from Iran to Syria, that’s why they hit Syria, everybody knows this I mean… just the people are how they say, goat what? Goat what?

NP: In Arabic?

FAH: No, “Kabsh El Fidaa”

NP: Coat?

FAH: Goat, G, O, A, T… in English.

NP: Oh, goat

FAH: goat victims, whatever they call it, I heard it before, I don’t remember it now…

NP: I don’t know.

FAH: But they are victims usually, they just go between here and there, so… we are afraid, what will happen again in the future.

NP: you feel it’s a very insecure moment?

FAH: Yes, definitely, because its not the Lebanese or the Syrian decision to live like this, it’s the other governments, its an outside decisions, from other countries who have money and power. And you know that the States whenever they have financial economic problems, they go hit middle east country because they go hit her money for many, many, years to come, like they did in Iraq, its not because of the Iraqi. Because to get money for them, that’s now what they are doing to Syria, before, they found gas in Syria, no body will come close to Syria, because it was not any threat, but now… everybody, it’s a threat so they are destroying it… don’t you think?

NP: like a repetition of things that happened in the past, like a pattern?

FAH: yes, it’s a pattern, yes, it’s the same pattern, the same pattern, on and on and on, yes, yes, yes, definitely. Its like, ill tell you what happened to Gaza, why they have been living in peace for a long time and nothing happened. And then suddenly, Israel started bombing Gaza, because they have pipeline in the see and the British company working their for the gas, they said they will give the money, they have the contract with the people who are living in the beach… you know this story, right?

NP: I know about the gas that is under the sea…

FAH: and they refused to make any agreement with Israel, the people, and they said, we have it to the people who live on the beach beside the sea, so Israel start bombing Gaza all the time, to tell the British company that we control this part, so how many people dies, its nothing… just war for the fuel and the Arab countries they are in hell, because they have fuel and now we were living in Lebanon peacefully, we never been living peacefully, but now we are going to hell because we have gas in Lebanon, now we don’t know what will happen to us.

NP: are you afraid?

FAH: Yes. From the future, because how many wars we had?

NP: In Lebanon?

FAH: I’m talking civil war, not just with Israel, but we don’t know when Israel will come and … maybe now, that’s what happened last time, there is no time, no reason, she making a reason and they just hit, yrah. But now I don’t think they will hit us this moment because they are afraid of Iran will move, but they want to destroy Syria, this way to destroy Iran and Hizbullah, and the rest will.. will be killed as a barrier,

NP: Too much war

FAH: Yeah, yeah, too much greed for the fuel, too much war yeah, because there is no woman in the decision making process..

NP: Do you think if there was more women in the decision making process there would be less war?

FAH: yeah, if there were plenty of women, a number of women, not one or two, like Margaret Thatcher, she was a woman in a masculine idea because she was alone, but with others with her, they would be working as a woman, but not as a man, because I feel I go to the construction site because all of them are men, I work as a man, I don’t work as a woman, you know, I know from myself when I go there by the construction site, but if I have 2 or 3 women with me no, it will be different, you just have to fit in with what you have, but if you have… that’s why it is so important to have quota because a number of women will help, its very important. Because till now all the women in the decision-making they are not working as a woman, they are replacing the men, don’t you think?

NP: I guess they are working with the system that they have?

FAH: Yeah, yeah. And that’s how to fit.

NP: I think unfortunately we have to stop




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