Interview with Muyassar Al Saadi

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Interview with Muyassar Al Saadi
2014
TAPE 1
Nicola Pratt: Okay. May I ask you first when and where were you born?
Muysser Saadi: I was born in 1947 and the Nakba (catastrophe) of Palestine happened in 1948.
I was born in Haifa. We migrated from Haifa to Jenin. We migrated to Jenin in the West Bank
my father used to work in the Ministry of Education, I studied in an elementary school for girls
until the fourth grade and after that I moved to a boys' school and my personality was formed
there as I studied in a school of boys where there weren't girls, that was a great experience for
me, my father had a progressive mentality so he let me study in the boys' school. After that I
studied in Jenin until 1964, I got married at 16, so I continued pursuing my education after I got
married, I studied nursing in Jerusalem, in Augusta Victoria Hospital, nursing is a humanitarian
work in itself, it has a humanitarian aspect. I graduated in 1965 and in 1967 I gave birth to my
first daughter, and then I worked in mother and child centers, we migrated from Jenin during
the 1967 war to Amman, Jordan, and I worked in refugee camps, emergency camps when the
camps were... just like Zaatari and the camps where the Syrians live now, the refugee camps
were like that, they were made up of tents. I worked in camps for 13 years and then I moved to
Amman and worked in a center in Lweibdeh, I did all my work in mother and child centers, at
first I worked in Ghour Al-Nimrain, I worked in Souf camp on the road to Jerash, I worked in Al-
Hussein camp, so I moved around with the people, I worked in Schneller camp for 13
consecutive years, Schneller camp is the one between Rusaifa and Amman. And then after I
finished serving at camps I worked in Lweibdeh in the mother and child center there, which was
affiliated with UNRWA too, and I kept working until 1995. In 1995 I resigned, I was tired of
work. Besides my regular job I used to work 2 extra hours a day as a volunteer, after my
working hours, I would work in the camp to serve the women and the children, in addition to
my regular job. In 1974 when the union was form I joined it because we did our work
spontaneously, not according to defined methodologies, I worked spontaneously with friends
of mine, but when the union was formed it had defined objectives and a basic system, so I
joined the union and worked there, I started there in 1974. I stayed in the union until 1997, in
1997 I worked with the UN as a volunteer in a project and that was one of the best projects
funded by the UNDP that year. In 1998 I was nominated for a prize by the United Nations
among 5 women from all over the world for my efforts in fighting poverty. I received the prize
in New York from the Secretary General Kofi Annan, I was one of five women in the world,
because I was working and they asked for my C.V so I sent it to them and they got my profile
from Vienna, the headquarters of UNRWA was in Vienna. They got my profile from there and
saw my C.V and my work in the agency, I wasn't working an employee there, I was working
there because I believed in that work, in serving communities, women and children. I always
thought that there must be an alternative for what's offered by UNRWA, UNRWA offered aid
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and rescue, and I considered that humiliating for human dignity, so I always thought there must
be something to compensate people so that they would be self-dependent and keep their
dignity because the most humiliating thing in the world is to ask for help. So, I established a
center for women in every camp I worked in, and then that work became a part of me and my
life, although I had 4 children, I had 3 daughters and a son, but that never conflicted with my
work, my late husband, God bless his soul, used to help me a lot, and since my work had a
humanitarian aspect he supported me and helped me to continue with it, he's never stood in
my way, that also helped me. After I received the prize which was for fighting poverty I thought
that I should continue my work in the field of economic empowerment of women, and the
reason for that is that if you empower a woman economically you'll be solving 70% of her
problems, especially women who live in poor areas, as the burden on poverty in poor areas fall
on women most of all, if the man doesn't work he would leave the house all day and come back
in the evening, so the woman is the one who's always suffering with the kids and the house
chores and everything, and she needs to make ends meet for her and her children so if she
doesn't work she will face domestic violence or divorce or family disintegration, that's why I
focus on women's work, I think it's fundamental. Later on, after we established the economic
empowerment unit in the organization we started receiving many cases of women facing
violence, problems, abuse and whatnot, so we formed a family guidance unit, that unit has
social specialists, guidance and mental health specialists and lawyers. So, the woman would
come and they would offer her guidance, if her problem was poverty they would refer her to
the economic empowerment unit, if the reason behind the violence she's facing was poverty
she would be referred to the economic empowerment unit where she would be trained and
obtain some skill, she would be trained on cooking, housekeeping or any job she wants and she
would start working, we provide her with a job she doesn't have to look for a job, we have
fields of work and we have partnerships with the private sector so we call the institutions and
they help us in securing jobs for them after we train them. I also found that there was a
problem for the children under school age, "pre-school" kids, 4 or 5 years old, they are always
on the streets and they are exposed to traffic accidents and assaults on them, and the ones
who are older than them too, so I thought we must do something that includes these children
because public schools and UNRWA schools do not have classes for them as they don't accept
children before the age of 6, so they stay on the streets all the time, so we establish a
kindergarten for children from the age of 4-6, the pre-school phase, where we prepare them
with an interactive curriculum and learning through playing and other things to use their energy
instead of staying on the streets. After that we opened a beauty center for girls to train them
on hairdressing and make-up and to provide them with jobs in beauty lounges in Jordan with
the Beauty Lounges Association. We also have a productive kitchen which is for the women we
train on cooking, they make food orders and work from home and cater to their surrounding
community. So, there are several projects, we also have a project where we give loans to the
women we train who don't have income, like if a woman wants to start a business but doesn't
have money we give her a loan until she starts her project after we train her and then we give
her the money which she pays back in very convenient installments without interest. That
project was very popular with people too because, instead of going to a bank and taking a loan
with interest and you know how banks are, they could forfeit the property of the borrower if
she doesn't pay, while we have flexibility in this regard, we follow up with her and help her in
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case her project didn't go well or faced ay problems, because as you know we're working on
human rights, we're not a company or a profit organization, that's the field we work in, in
addition to awareness programs on all level, we do "family planning", "women health",
programs about nutrition, programs about capacity building for young women who finish their
education, we train them on how to introduce themselves, for example if a girl wants to apply
for a job how she should act when she goes to do the interview, that's for the educated group,
girls who graduated from university and are looking for jobs, and as you know, in the private
sector if she's not talented and not qualified they won't hire her, especially that these girls
come from poor families. The programs we offer are for the whole family not for women only,
but we're more biased towards women because she's the basic component in the family. Both
men and women complete each other but women are the bases in society, they are the ones
who raise the children, although it's a shared responsibility, but in oriental societies men are
not very involved in raising the children, so all the responsibility falls upon the woman; that's
why we are very concerned with women in the economic aspect and raising awareness and
even birth control, when we first started working in this field woman would have 7 or 8
children in the family, now there is so much control, instead of 8 or 9 children they have 4,
through this program we should reach a phase where there is a maximum of 2 or 3 children in
the family, first because as you know there are many challenges facing the demographic
window of opportunity in Jordan, there is water shortage in Jordan, the economic situation is
bad, Jordan is not an industrial country and we need the people and the institutions to help the
government in order to overcome these challenges, like the issue of Syrian refugees, we have
1.5 million Syrians in Jordan, and we had 500 thousand Iraqis, and you know that refugees
made up a large percentage of the population of Jordan, the war between Iraq and Kuwait, any
problem that happens in the Arab World affect the Palestinians more than anyone else, it
causes an influx of refugees who keep increasing, and all of that affects the family as well as the
state. We try as much as we could as we are not a governmental institution, we do voluntary
work, lama volunteer, but we try to help as much as we could to take some of the burden off
the state, there are also international organizations that help us, these programs we offer are
supported by international organization because we can't do it alone, we offer our effort but to
provide a good service you need support, you can't provide this service without support, like
the kindergarten, the sewing workshop, the training on cosmetic work, the kitchen, every
training needs financial support, but thank God, our situation in that regard in stable; we
receive support from international organizations, because I have a good deal of experience in
that field and I have credibility with the institutions I work with and that helps me a lot in doing
the things I think about to help people through these institutions.
N.P: May I ask you to tell me more details about the 1967 war? How was it for you?
M.S: When the 1967 war happened I was 20 or 21 years old. We left without being aware... I
had been freshly hired in UNRWA and then the war broke out, we were in Jenin, Jenin was a
front line, it was close to Haifa which was occupied in 1948, so we had hope that this war would
bring Palestine back to us, and we were very excited and enthusiastic that it would be a
grueling war but, sadly, it caused the displacement of large numbers of Palestinians who lived
in the West Bank. I was working in the camp and I hadn't been working there for long, I
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graduated in 1965, or in 1966 and the war broke out in 1967, my first daughter was only 2
months old, so the people, because of what happened in the 1948 war... the first area the Jews
entered was Jenin because it was on the borders as I told you, and I was working in Jenin camp,
so when I went home I didn't find any of my in-laws, they all left and left me behind, that was a
disaster for me, so I followed them to a town near Jenin called Qabatyeh, I followed them
there, they were at my aunt's house, people thought this was just a phase, that they would run
away from the Jews in the city and take refuge in the villages, but after that they occupied the
whole West Bank, and when we came to Jordan, I didn't want to go because my father told us
about the 1948 war and how people were scattered and suffered a lot, so I was against leaving
but my father-in-law, who is also my uncle, had a wife and one son so he was afraid for him, so
he decided to go to Amman. Even when we came to Amman, we thought it would be a phase,
that we would be Back in a month or two, but we stayed, and of course I joined UNRWA'S
centers in Jordan when I came here, in the camps as I told you. So, we migrated. Also in 1968,
we left in 1967, in 1968 I was working in Karama camp, I was in Karama when Al Karama battle
happened, imagine that! I got stuck in Karama for 3 days because I couldn't go back to Amman
and the battle ensued between the army and the resistance on one side and Israel on the
other. I also had hope that this battle would be decisive, the army did really well, but the war
stopped and there was a bigger disaster that we didn't achieve the goal we spired to achieve.
We migrated again from Karama camp to Schneller camp, so as you can see, the experiences I
lived were very tough and the times I went through, the 1967 war and then Al-Karama battle, I
kept moving from one place to another and each time I would go through the same suffering as
before, I suffered through the 1967 war and through 1968 and I kept moving from one camp to
another, so it was very hard. But thank God I managed to overcome all these phases, hard as
they were, they were tough but we learned a lot of things from them, the more difficult
experiences you go through the stronger you feel. You should face difficulties with a spirit of
challenge; we still have hope that we will achieve our goals. They haven't been achieved yet but
I hope the next generation will be able to do better. We did what we could but we hope and we
depend on the youth generation to have a better future, although the current situation and
indicators are not very promising, but we should never lose hope because if one loses hope
then their life is over. So life goes on, we should keep struggling to achieve the purpose of living
with dignity at least, that's all we want, to live with dignity at least, you can see how much
people are being humiliated with the Syrian war and how much they suffer, we've been
through it all, when the girls tell me about the tragedy in Zaatari camp I tell them not to tell me
about it because I've been through that experience, at least now there are international
organizations helping people, there are many international organizations helping Syrian
refugees while there was only UNRWA for Palestinian refugees, and UNRWA was still in its
beginning, it didn't have a lot of capabilities like what they have now. Of course I am against
displacement regardless of anything but when you're under killing and destruction then you'll
be forced to, so I hope their problem will be resolved and they will be back to their country
because being a refugee isn't an easy thing, it's very hard to be a refugee, to live in a different
country among people who are not your people, it's not easy, that's why I pray to God that this
crisis will be solved and they will go back to their country because no matter how their life here
was it wouldn't be like being in their home country, there's a poem that says: I cherish my
country and my people, even if they were unfair to me", one lives with dignity in their country,
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now they are scattered and their children face violence and abuse, they are in a very bad
situation.
N.P: Why did you start working with refugees?
M.S: As I told you, I studied nursing, nursing itself has a humanitarian aspect, I studied nursing
as a challenge because we are a conservative religious society and this was 50 years ago, or 55
years ago, nursing was not approved, but I insisted on studying nursing because I loved it, I love
things with a humanitarian aspect to them, I have that feeling, so when we migrated in 1967 I
worked in refugee camps and lived the daily suffering of people. I saw how people stand in line
to get food, I saw children without milk or food... so, I started in 1967 during the war and I
worked in refugee camps, living the daily suffering of people day in day out, so my colleagues in
nursing school and I would spontaneously go to pharmacies collecting medicines and milk for
the children and so on; people used to sympathize a lot with the refugees who came from
Palestine, and honestly the Jordanian people are very generous and they like to help. So, this is
how we worked, on human impulse, we would feel enthusiastic and run to get aid, but then I
started to think that we should not keep working that way, we should have a framework to
work through, an institution or something, so when the union was established I joined it right
away and we started to work through systematic programs, providing training for women,
providing them with job. All Palestinian women know how to do embroidery so we would give
them pieces to embroider and we would ten sell it on their behalf and they would the money to
buy things they need. So we started working on something systematic, and... sorry, I started in
1967 and I haven't stopped working until now, this work remained a part of me, even when I
left my job, I wasn't 50 yet, not even 30, and UNRWA doesn't have a pension plan, unlike the
government, you take your [inaudible: 24:41] fund at the end of your service. I didn't continue
with them and I didn't get all my fund because I still had two years to go but I decided to
continue working in that field but without being an employee, although a job meant a salary
but my children had grown up and I decided I wanted to continue doing voluntary work.
Thankfully, I did many things in that field, for example Izdehar project which you conduct a
survey on has been going for 12 years, 800 girls graduated from it and they work in institutions
with very good pay given that they don't have higher degrees, they left school after the 10s or
11th grade, they work in institutions, hotels, hospitals, kindergartens, pre-school, companies, in
the private sector, so when you do something in that humanitarian and moral aspect you feel
you've done something for yourself, when you see people being successful and when you
change people's lives from a bad situation to a good one, that feeling giving gives you strength
and a push forward, whenever you do something and see good results from it you feel like
doing more, that's why I got involved in this work as it stemmed from my own experience, my
work was related to the experience I went through, from the suffering I went through, from the
suffering of people which I witnessed. So, I think this was the best experience in my life, I'm
grateful that all my children are educated, I didn't neglect any aspect of my family life, all my
children got educated and lived a good life, some of my children inherited my desire to give and
help people and sympathizing with people who need them, my son is a lawyer, he works at
Mizan Human Rights organization, he undertakes cases of people who can't afford to pay his
fees, so I feel that there is continuity to the acts of giving, I had an influence on some people
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and they did similar things, not as much as I do because things are different now, people want
to earn their livelihood and the circumstances are difficult. But they have that humanitarian
sense towards people in need.
N.P: You talked a little bit about your father and husband.
M.S: Look, my father... they always say that behind every great man there is a woman, but I also
say that behind every great woman is a man. A man who is enlightened and open-minded and
who has the fear of God in him. As you know the mentality of oriental men in the past and even
now, there are educated men who don't believe in women issues. My father was the opposite
of that, the people of the village used to say to him: "How could you send her to school with
boys? You think she will become a doctor?" He would say: "Yes, why not? It's her God given
right, why would I deprive her of it?" So my role model was my father in the first phase. In the
second phase it was my late husband, God bless his soul, he sued to help me a lot, he wasn't a
traditional man who would stop me from going out as men used to think that women should
stay home, but I would travel and attend conferences while he stayed with the children, my
children were still young. So, first it was my father then my husband and then my son, my son is
proud of me now, when someone mentions Muysser Saadi he says that he's proud I'm his
mother, I appeared on TV many times and people would tell him they saw me on TV, so he
would say: "My mother is a great woman, she speaks out, she loves people". There is my
granddaughter who was in the fifth grade the year I was honored, she was 9 years old, the
teacher asked them to write an article about women and children so she wrote about me. My
daughter's daughter. The teacher asked her why she wrote about her grandmother and not her
mother, she said: "My mother is an ordinary woman, she loves her kids and takes care of them,
she feeds them and helps them study like any other mother in the world, but my grandmother
is a mother for all people". You see, such things give you a huge moral push, that this little girl
considered me her role model, and not her mother, although the mother is always in the front
not the grandmother, the grandmother spoils the kids and whatnot, so she considered me a
role model. I have another grandson who went to the States this year and he was very
accomplished at university, so in the university he was telling them about his family, he's my
daughter's son, not my son's son, he was introducing his family, his parents, as you know they
ask about these details in America, so he talked about me with pride and he sent me the letter
he wrote in school, he said in it: "I learned many things from my grandmother, I learned from
her patience and leadership, I learned from her..."
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TAPE 2
Muysser Saadi: "to be close to people, feeling their problems and their concerns. I consider my
grandmother a role model", so these things, you don't teach them to say these things but it
stems from what they feel. This makes me very happy, that there's continuity for what I've
done, not for me but for the family, the children, the future generation and as I told you, I'm in
a very difficult situation now, I've undergone surgery, I have a herniated disk as well as diabetes
and high blood pressure, but still, thank God, I've never thought of quitting my work and
staying home and that my message is done, I have a message and I have to go through with it. If
I can't go out anymore or can't walk then I might stay home, but as long as I can go out and
move around, even if I am using crutches, I have no problem, the most important thing is that
God rewards me for the work I do, God has given me great children and that's what we seek,
wealth is not about money, wealth is the good children who are leading a successful life, that's
what every mother wishes for her children, ad in the end I hope that God will reward us for
what we do, because we don't get paid for this, we only seek God's reward.
Nicola Pratt: Did you participate in any other work, political or something?
M. S: Yes, in the 1970's I worked in a political confederation, and that too contributed to
forming my personality. Later on, I felt that wasn't what I wanted. It's true that political work is
very good and it builds one's personality and helps people to break the fear barrier. But, at a
certain point it might have been useful but under the political circumstances not only in the
country but in general too, it wasn't very convincing for me. I chose social work; it's where I
found myself more than I did in political work. So, I did political work but I did it for our cause,
the Palestinian cause, but I found that at this stage doing social and humanitarian work to help
people is also a form of struggle, it's no less important than politics, because it's politics too;
when you work with people to improve their lives I think it's more important. Politics needs
people who are specialized in politics, in Arab countries there is no politics. The politics we see
now, the politics of oppression and persecution, it's very painful, that's why I don't have much
faith in political issues, I believe in social work and public work, it's where I found myself, I
found that as Muysser this is where I should be, not in politics. So, maybe it's an experience you
go through but you learn so much from it, but you can't do anything, if you're not a decision
maker in politics to influence change, then you can't do anything, while in social work you can
influence change, because you're working independently, there's nobody in charge of you
telling you what to do and giving you a specific program, there are trends in politics as you
know, while social work stems from your own beliefs and convictions, you might do political
work without being convinced with what they say but you have to do it, right? That's why I
think it was a good experience but personally I think this work is more important.
N. P: And... weren't you a member in the municipal councils?
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M. S: Yes, it was a great experience in the municipal councils, I was elected not appointed. I ran
for the municipalities elections in the governorate of Amman 15 minutes before the period of
candidacy was over. I didn't hold an election campaign, I didn't advertise. My son told me:
"How could you run for the elections without preparing yourself?" I said: "I've been serving
people for 35 years; I want to see how much I mean for the people I serve. If I win, I will do
something even better, if I don't, then I will have failed in polarizing people". Nobody I my
family approved because elections need preparation, you need to meet with the people and
talk to them. Women used to come to the polling stations without having registered their
names, they would beg the person in charge to vote for me, he would tell them they were not
registered but they would say: "Please, this woman really helps us, we want to vote for her". He
would say: "No way, you need to be registered". So, these people who came out of their own
accord without being told to come and vote for Muysser, they gave me a great feeling, it made
me so happy, that these people who came appreciated that I served them and helped them. I
needed to gain 10% of the votes, I didn't win by the women quota, I won by number of votes. I
needed to gain 10% of the votes but I gained 20% of the votes. So I said to my son: "Look, even
if I don't win, these women who came to vote for me mean success to me, those who came to
vote for me without being registered. Those who believe in me and want to vote for me
because I help them, acknowledging that I help them without asking them to do so, that means
success to me". I worked in Amman Municipality and built a center in Wadi Al-Haddadeh, a
center for information technology with a library for reading and a playground, I've done lots of
things, the municipality added a lot to me. This time they told me to run for the elections but I
said I didn't want to, because I have health problems and because I had a goal and I achieved it,
I wanted to build that center in Wadi Al-Haddadeh because there weren't schools or cultural
centers or organizations there, there was nothing. Not even schools. And many children were
delinquents, so I said I had a goal and I achieved it, I want to take some rest now, I want to
continue working in the organization because there is lots of work and lots of programs there,
we now work on the national level, we have a projects in Ma'an, Mafraq, Al-Ghour, not in
Amman, we are working outside Amman, and that needs work and effort, so thank God...
besides, until now Amman municipality does anything I ask of them, even though I am not in
the council, if I ask any employee there for a favor, for the community not for myself, they do it.
So, the goal of municipal work is to serve people more and it was a great experience for me, I
learned so many things I didn't know before. Municipal work is very different form the work we
do, but thankfully we did lots of good things during the time I was there and hopefully those
who come after us will carry on with that, we should give a chance to the youth to have a role
in serving the society, because they might have a different vision or more enthusiasm, I hope
so.
N. P: May I ask, did you face any difficulties in public work because you were a woman?
M. S: Look... now?
N. P: Or in the past
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M.S: There were many difficulties and challenges in the past, first there were the challenges of
the patriarchal society, the way they viewed women and still view women, despite many
changes, that women were not supposed to leave the house, that was a challenge for me; I
studied in a boys' school, and then I worked as a nurse, and then I got married early at the age
of 16, it's not easy to be married and be studying at the same time, all of these were big
challenges, but I didn't deal with that as... maybe this is a piece wisdom I learned from my late
father, may God bless his soul, I always had flexibility, I got everything I wanted but through
persuasion. For example, sometimes I had to make a compromise and talk to my uncle who was
more adamant in being against my going to work, he would say: "Do you think we need you to
go to work? What would people say?" I would say: "Forget about people, this is about me, if I'm
not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about, you should not listen to
people, you will never please people". So, I faced lots of challenges in the beginning, and the
challenges when I came from Palestine and stayed in Amman, I had two daughters in Amman
and I had none of my family members with me, they were all in Palestine, in the West Bank, I
didn't have anyone here, all my family were there while my husband and I were here, my
mother in law was an old woman, so that was another challenge, that I had children and I had
to go to work, and I didn't work in Amman, I worked in camps in Souf, Jerash and Al-Ghour. I
would leave the house at 6 am and return at 4 pm. That was another challenge. I had little
children and nobody to take care of them, we had very kind neighbors, the wife didn't have
children and she loved my daughters and took care of them, so God facilitated things for me. So
that was another big challenge, to live in a country without your family and to work in a
different city, and then when I went to Al-Ghour I took my two daughters to work with me
because there was nobody to watch them. I would take them with me every day, I'd prepare
their food and milk and take them to work, so there was lots of suffering, I went through a very
difficult experience, it wasn't easy. All these things I've done in my life were hard, but always
what is hard gives you more motivation to overcome the challenge to reach your goals. I
worked so much and went through lot of hardships, imagine being responsible for a family at
the age of 17, there is a 17-year age difference between me and my eldest daughter, she's like a
sisterto me, I'm friends with my children, and I've raised them well and all of them are
educated, they are married and have jobs and lead successful lives, that means success to me,
despite all the hard circumstances I went through. The challenges from the surrounding
community, for example they would say to my husband: "How come you're staying home and
she goes to work? Why would you let her go to work? Why would you let her travel? She can't
keep traveling while you stay home", those were my own relatives, my aunts and others. He
would say: "It's her life and she's free to do whatever she wants with it. If she's not neglecting
her duties towards her children nobody can say anything, I'm the one who's living with her, not
you". So, that was part of the challenges I went through. So, when I got honored by the UN, my
husband threw an honorary party for me here in Jordan, which was more important for me
than being honored by the UN, because he invited all the public figures, civil society
organizations, embassies, in the Family's Diwan. My uncle who defied me, he's 80 years old
now, who objected to my work in nursing as they were a conservative family and religious and
were against their daughter working in center outside the house, he was the one who honored
me, my uncle who was objecting to my work was the one who honored me. I managed to
change people's mentality, it might have taken a long time, 35 years, and he was proud that as
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part of the family I was honored at the highest level, that was big for him, but after so much
suffering, if I had given in to their pressures and their mentality and surrendered to reality, I
wouldn't have done or changed anything, but I managed to do something very good for my
children, my family, my grandchildren, for the society in general and for myself. I'm proud of
myself and I'm very pleased with myself for doing these things and I can see the results now. I
worked very hard, as I told you I used to take my daughters with me every day to Al-Ghour, and
when Al-Karama battle ensued in 1968 I stayed there for 3 days and nobody knew whether I
was dead or alive, I was cut off from my family, there were no phones or mobiles or anything,
when I came back to Amman people couldn't believe it, my daughters were staying with the
neighbors, so that was a tragedy in itself, but thank God that I overcame all these hardships and
difficulties and managed to do something for my children and the society I live in, and I consider
this work I do as a duty, not a favor, I'm doing this as a duty, because anyone in the world
endowed by God with sanity, health, intellect and all of that must serve their people, their
country, their society. So I'm saying that I don't consider the work I've done as a favor, it's quite
the opposite, it's true that I achieved a goal for myself but it's a duty, and I always say that to
my children, don't do anything while thinking what you will get in return, you should do your
work while being sure that God will reward you for it, whoever does something good must be
rewarded for it by God. I didn't do that work to be rewarded by anyone and yet I was honored
at the highest international level, I've ever thought that one say I would be honored or that
anyone would pay attention to me, because I do this work for the sake of God, not because I
want to get something out of it, but also I gained a good status with people, if you ask anyone
in Jordan about Muysser Saadi they will tell you what I did. So that's not easy, it's not easy to
gain people's trust, if you're not truly eligible for that trust people won't give it to you. So, I
thank God for everything. It was a pleasure seeing you again and I hope that when you finish
your thesis you will send me a copy of it.
N.P: Yes, sure.
M. S: I hope that when you finish your thesis you will send me a copy of it, because I have lots of
things in my archives, my biography, the things I went through, all of that is documented,
maybe if I lived long enough we would put it in a book.
N. P: Okay. Great. May I ask you one last question? What do you think about the new
generation with regards to social work?
M.S: I don't have much faith in this generation; because this is the generation of technology
and that's creating a huge gap between the older and the younger generations. Even between
parents and children, and I think that is very dangerous. This really bothers me, I'm glad you
asked me this question. We need to reconsider the way we deal with technology; because it's
true that technology is a big branch of science which we all need, but we use it very wrongly.
The 5 years-old kid has a cellphone, why? First, the radiations from this cellphone affect
children as you know, secondly, why would a school child carry a cellphone? We used to go to
school in a different city without any phones and we would go home safe and sound and our
parents trusted us and everything, so now these technologies, computers and Internet and
whatnot are causing lots of malfunctioning in children, that's why this generation doesn't have
10


any sense of belonging, not even to their families. You'd be sitting with your family and each
one would be holding a phone, I always argue with my grandchildren and their father my son, I
tell him that this is wrong, don't think that when you get your children everything they want
then you're being a good father, you're actually hurting them, they need to live their life and
their childhood, they need to go play on the street, they need to think and be creative to make
things to play with, they have to make it, instead of the things you get them like Play Station
and things like that. That's why this generation should be taught about social work in schools
since the elementary phase like they do in Europe. In Europe they study about social work in
elementary school, this should start from the family and then the school and then when they
grow up they must develop that sense of loyalty to their country, for loyalty is not about
shouting "long live the king", it's about how much I serve my country, that is loyalty, how much
I serve my country and my society, that is loyalty, it's not about loving the king or the Prime
Minister. So, this technology is a double-edged sword, if not used correctly it could be
destructive, and we're actually starting to see that, look at the violence that takes place in
Jordanian universities, do you live in Jordan?
N.P: No, I live abroad.
M.S: But you hear about this. The violence in universities is unprecedented, the violence at
schools, the student who hits his teacher, it has never happened before that a student would
hit a teacher, cheating in schools, all of that was the result of disturbances in the society, our
life was governed by values and principles, what we learned from our parents, that you have
freedom to a certain extent, not that you could do whatever you want, I have the freedom to
get educated, to go out and play, to see my friends, but not to hang out all day and consider
that freedom, that's not freedom, they understand freedom wrongly. And these internet
websites the browse too are what's causing this disturbance in the society, they must be
monitored and the state should interfere in that, I always say that in my interviews, that the
state should have a role in monitoring the internet, like all other countries, the internet should
not be available for all age groups. A child goes into his room ad shuts the door, in his teenage
for example, and he browse websites of God knows what, so that too pollutes his mind, that's
why I'm telling you I don't have any faith in this generation, unless societies are restructured,
educational curricula are reconsidered since elementary schools, because no matter how much
reform you do and how much you talk about awareness and programs, you will not have an
influence on them like that of the internet, you will not influence them. I've been working in
this field for 40 years when I used to talk to girls and women, but the ones in poor areas didn't
have the technologies available for rich and well-off people anyway and this is where the most
damage happens, there is disturbance in poor communities, but it is more in well-off
communities, there are many problems. So I hope things will get better and that we'll avoid any
more damage and that there will be intervention at a high level, intervention to reconsider the
curricula and to raise the children right, or we will be heading to the abyss. This makes me feel
really bad, I've ever imagined seeing the things I'm seeing now, the stories I hear and the sexual
assaults, I worked in refugee camps in 1967 and the whole family would sleep in one tent, the
whole family would sleep in one tent, yet we didn't hear about problems like the ones we have
now; because it's all about the technology which we are not ready for yet. Technology is good
11


and it's a science in itself, but the question is how to use it. In Europe, I know that nobody gives
their 5 year-old son a phone, although they have money and they can afford it, but we want to
show off and say that our children are carrying Nokia phone or whatever. So, your question was
very important for me, and I think that this new generation should be brought up again... thank
you.
N.P: Is there anything else?
M. S: No, if you have any other questions... No, I just want to say thank you and I hope that I got
the message across, and I have hopes for this generation, we have great women in Jordan with
excellent abilities, so I hope they will be able to influence change, we have women in decision
making positions with great academic qualifications, minsters, lawyers and judges. Jordan has
lots of competent people but I hope they will contribute to change, because if you're not a
decision maker you won't be able to change anything, right?
N. P: Right.
12

Interview with Muyassar Al Saadi
2014

TAPE 1

Nicola Pratt: Okay. May I ask you first when and where were you born?
Muysser Saadi: I was born in 1947 and the Nakba (catastrophe) of Palestine happened in 1948. I was born in Haifa. We migrated from Haifa to Jenin. We migrated to Jenin in the West Bank my father used to work in the Ministry of Education, I studied in an elementary school for girls until the fourth grade and after that I moved to a boys' school and my personality was formed there as I studied in a school of boys where there weren't girls, that was a great experience for me, my father had a progressive mentality so he let me study in the boys' school. After that I studied in Jenin until 1964, I got married at 16, so I continued pursuing my education after I got married, I studied nursing in Jerusalem, in Augusta Victoria Hospital, nursing is a humanitarian work in itself, it has a humanitarian aspect. I graduated in 1965 and in 1967 I gave birth to my first daughter, and then I worked in mother and child centers, we migrated from Jenin during the 1967 war to Amman, Jordan, and I worked in refugee camps, emergency camps when the camps were… just like Zaatari and the camps where the Syrians live now, the refugee camps were like that, they were made up of tents. I worked in camps for 13 years and then I moved to Amman and worked in a center in Lweibdeh, I did all my work in mother and child centers, at first I worked in Ghour Al-Nimrain, I worked in Souf camp on the road to Jerash, I worked in Al-Hussein camp, so I moved around with the people, I worked in Schneller camp for 13 consecutive years, Schneller camp is the one between Rusaifa and Amman. And then after I finished serving at camps I worked in Lweibdeh in the mother and child center there, which was affiliated with UNRWA too, and I kept working until 1995. In 1995 I resigned, I was tired of work. Besides my regular job I used to work 2 extra hours a day as a volunteer, after my working hours, I would work in the camp to serve the women and the children, in addition to my regular job. In 1974 when the union was form I joined it because we did our work spontaneously, not according to defined methodologies, I worked spontaneously with friends of mine, but when the union was formed it had defined objectives and a basic system, so I joined the union and worked there, I started there in 1974. I stayed in the union until 1997, in 1997 I worked with the UN as a volunteer in a project and that was one of the best projects funded by the UNDP that year. In 1998 I was nominated for a prize by the United Nations among 5 women from all over the world for my efforts in fighting poverty. I received the prize in New York from the Secretary General Kofi Annan, I was one of five women in the world, because I was working and they asked for my C.V so I sent it to them and they got my profile from Vienna, the headquarters of UNRWA was in Vienna. They got my profile from there and saw my C.V and my work in the agency, I wasn't working an employee there, I was working there because I believed in that work, in serving communities, women and children. I always thought that there must be an alternative for what's offered by UNRWA, UNRWA offered aid and rescue, and I considered that humiliating for human dignity, so I always thought there must be something to compensate people so that they would be self-dependent and keep their dignity because the most humiliating thing in the world is to ask for help. So, I established a center for women in every camp I worked in, and then that work became a part of me and my life, although I had 4 children, I had 3 daughters and a son, but that never conflicted with my work, my late husband, God bless his soul, used to help me a lot, and since my work had a humanitarian aspect he supported me and helped me to continue with it, he's never stood in my way, that also helped me. After I received the prize which was for fighting poverty I thought that I should continue my work in the field of economic empowerment of women, and the reason for that is that if you empower a woman economically you'll be solving 70% of her problems, especially women who live in poor areas, as the burden on poverty in poor areas fall on women most of all, if the man doesn't work he would leave the house all day and come back in the evening, so the woman is the one who's always suffering with the kids and the house chores and everything, and she needs to make ends meet for her and her children so if she doesn't work she will face domestic violence or divorce or family disintegration, that's why I focus on women's work, I think it's fundamental. Later on, after we established the economic empowerment unit in the organization we started receiving many cases of women facing violence, problems, abuse and whatnot, so we formed a family guidance unit, that unit has social specialists, guidance and mental health specialists and lawyers. So, the woman would come and they would offer her guidance, if her problem was poverty they would refer her to the economic empowerment unit, if the reason behind the violence she's facing was poverty she would be referred to the economic empowerment unit where she would be trained and obtain some skill, she would be trained on cooking, housekeeping or any job she wants and she would start working, we provide her with a job she doesn't have to look for a job, we have fields of work and we have partnerships with the private sector so we call the institutions and they help us in securing jobs for them after we train them. I also found that there was a problem for the children under school age, "pre-school" kids, 4 or 5 years old, they are always on the streets and they are exposed to traffic accidents and assaults on them, and the ones who are older than them too, so I thought we must do something that includes these children because public schools and UNRWA schools do not have classes for them as they don't accept children before the age of 6, so they stay on the streets all the time, so we establish a kindergarten for children from the age of 4-6, the pre-school phase, where we prepare them with an interactive curriculum and learning through playing and other things to use their energy instead of staying on the streets. After that we opened a beauty center for girls to train them on hairdressing and make-up and to provide them with jobs in beauty lounges in Jordan with the Beauty Lounges Association. We also have a productive kitchen which is for the women we train on cooking, they make food orders and work from home and cater to their surrounding community. So, there are several projects, we also have a project where we give loans to the women we train who don't have income, like if a woman wants to start a business but doesn't have money we give her a loan until she starts her project after we train her and then we give her the money which she pays back in very convenient installments without interest. That project was very popular with people too because, instead of going to a bank and taking a loan with interest and you know how banks are, they could forfeit the property of the borrower if she doesn't pay, while we have flexibility in this regard, we follow up with her and help her in case her project didn't go well or faced ay problems, because as you know we're working on human rights, we're not a company or a profit organization, that's the field we work in, in addition to awareness programs on all level, we do "family planning", "women health", programs about nutrition, programs about capacity building for young women who finish their education, we train them on how to introduce themselves, for example if a girl wants to apply for a job how she should act when she goes to do the interview, that's for the educated group, girls who graduated from university and are looking for jobs, and as you know, in the private sector if she's not talented and not qualified they won't hire her, especially that these girls come from poor families. The programs we offer are for the whole family not for women only, but we're more biased towards women because she's the basic component in the family. Both men and women complete each other but women are the bases in society, they are the ones who raise the children, although it's a shared responsibility, but in oriental societies men are not very involved in raising the children, so all the responsibility falls upon the woman; that's why we are very concerned with women in the economic aspect and raising awareness and even birth control, when we first started working in this field woman would have 7 or 8 children in the family, now there is so much control, instead of 8 or 9 children they have 4, through this program we should reach a phase where there is a maximum of 2 or 3 children in the family, first because as you know there are many challenges facing the demographic window of opportunity in Jordan, there is water shortage in Jordan, the economic situation is bad, Jordan is not an industrial country and we need the people and the institutions to help the government in order to overcome these challenges, like the issue of Syrian refugees, we have 1.5 million Syrians in Jordan, and we had 500 thousand Iraqis, and you know that refugees made up a large percentage of the population of Jordan, the war between Iraq and Kuwait, any problem that happens in the Arab World affect the Palestinians more than anyone else, it causes an influx of refugees who keep increasing, and all of that affects the family as well as the state. We try as much as we could as we are not a governmental institution, we do voluntary work, I am a volunteer, but we try to help as much as we could to take some of the burden off the state, there are also international organizations that help us, these programs we offer are supported by international organization because we can't do it alone, we offer our effort but to provide a good service you need support, you can't provide this service without support, like the kindergarten, the sewing workshop, the training on cosmetic work, the kitchen, every training needs financial support, but thank God, our situation in that regard in stable; we receive support from international organizations, because I have a good deal of experience in that field and I have credibility with the institutions I work with and that helps me a lot in doing the things I think about to help people through these institutions.
N.P: May I ask you to tell me more details about the 1967 war? How was it for you?
M.S: When the 1967 war happened I was 20 or 21 years old. We left without being aware… I had been freshly hired in UNRWA and then the war broke out, we were in Jenin, Jenin was a front line, it was close to Haifa which was occupied in 1948, so we had hope that this war would bring Palestine back to us, and we were very excited and enthusiastic that it would be a grueling war but, sadly, it caused the displacement of large numbers of Palestinians who lived in the West Bank. I was working in the camp and I hadn't been working there for long, I graduated in 1965, or in 1966 and the war broke out in 1967, my first daughter was only 2 months old, so the people, because of what happened in the 1948 war… the first area the Jews entered was Jenin because it was on the borders as I told you, and I was working in Jenin camp, so when I went home I didn’t find any of my in-laws, they all left and left me behind, that was a disaster for me, so I followed them to a town near Jenin called Qabatyeh, I followed them there, they were at my aunt's house, people thought this was just a phase, that they would run away from the Jews in the city and take refuge in the villages, but after that they occupied the whole West Bank, and when we came to Jordan, I didn't want to go because my father told us about the 1948 war and how people were scattered and suffered a lot, so I was against leaving but my father-in-law, who is also my uncle, had a wife and one son so he was afraid for him, so he decided to go to Amman. Even when we came to Amman, we thought it would be a phase, that we would be Back in a month or two, but we stayed, and of course I joined UNRWA'S centers in Jordan when I came here, in the camps as I told you. So, we migrated. Also in 1968, we left in 1967, in 1968 I was working in Karama camp, I was in Karama when Al Karama battle happened, imagine that! I got stuck in Karama for 3 days because I couldn't go back to Amman and the battle ensued between the army and the resistance on one side and Israel on the other. I also had hope that this battle would be decisive, the army did really well, but the war stopped and there was a bigger disaster that we didn't achieve the goal we spired to achieve. We migrated again from Karama camp to Schneller camp, so as you can see, the experiences I lived were very tough and the times I went through, the 1967 war and then Al-Karama battle, I kept moving from one place to another and each time I would go through the same suffering as before, I suffered through the 1967 war and through 1968 and I kept moving from one camp to another, so it was very hard. But thank God I managed to overcome all these phases, hard as they were, they were tough but we learned a lot of things from them, the more difficult experiences you go through the stronger you feel. You should face difficulties with a spirit of challenge; we still have hope that we will achieve our goals. They haven't been achieved yet but I hope the next generation will be able to do better. We did what we could but we hope and we depend on the youth generation to have a better future, although the current situation and indicators are not very promising, but we should never lose hope because if one loses hope then their life is over. So life goes on, we should keep struggling to achieve the purpose of living with dignity at least, that's all we want, to live with dignity at least, you can see how much people are being humiliated with the Syrian war and how much they suffer, we've been through it all, when the girls tell me about the tragedy in Zaatari camp I tell them not to tell me about it because I've been through that experience, at least now there are international organizations helping people, there are many international organizations helping Syrian refugees while there was only UNRWA for Palestinian refugees, and UNRWA was still in its beginning, it didn't have a lot of capabilities like what they have now. Of course I am against displacement regardless of anything but when you're under killing and destruction then you'll be forced to, so I hope their problem will be resolved and they will be back to their country because being a refugee isn't an easy thing, it's very hard to be a refugee, to live in a different country among people who are not your people, it's not easy, that's why I pray to God that this crisis will be solved and they will go back to their country because no matter how their life here was it wouldn't be like being in their home country, there's a poem that says: I cherish my country and my people, even if they were unfair to me", one lives with dignity in their country, now they are scattered and their children face violence and abuse, they are in a very bad situation.
N.P: Why did you start working with refugees?
M.S: As I told you, I studied nursing, nursing itself has a humanitarian aspect, I studied nursing as a challenge because we are a conservative religious society and this was 50 years ago, or 55 years ago, nursing was not approved, but I insisted on studying nursing because I loved it, I love things with a humanitarian aspect to them, I have that feeling, so when we migrated in 1967 I worked in refugee camps and lived the daily suffering of people. I saw how people stand in line to get food, I saw children without milk or food… so, I started in 1967 during the war and I worked in refugee camps, living the daily suffering of people day in day out, so my colleagues in nursing school and I would spontaneously go to pharmacies collecting medicines and milk for the children and so on; people used to sympathize a lot with the refugees who came from Palestine, and honestly the Jordanian people are very generous and they like to help. So, this is how we worked, on human impulse, we would feel enthusiastic and run to get aid, but then I started to think that we should not keep working that way, we should have a framework to work through, an institution or something, so when the union was established I joined it right away and we started to work through systematic programs, providing training for women, providing them with job. All Palestinian women know how to do embroidery so we would give them pieces to embroider and we would ten sell it on their behalf and they would the money to buy things they need. So we started working on something systematic, and… sorry, I started in 1967 and I haven't stopped working until now, this work remained a part of me, even when I left my job, I wasn't 50 yet, not even 30, and UNRWA doesn't have a pension plan, unlike the government, you take your [inaudible: 24:41] fund at the end of your service. I didn't continue with them and I didn't get all my fund because I still had two years to go but I decided to continue working in that field but without being an employee, although a job meant a salary but my children had grown up and I decided I wanted to continue doing voluntary work. Thankfully, I did many things in that field, for example Izdehar project which you conduct a survey on has been going for 12 years, 800 girls graduated from it and they work in institutions with very good pay given that they don't have higher degrees, they left school after the 10s or 11th grade, they work in institutions, hotels, hospitals, kindergartens, pre-school, companies, in the private sector, so when you do something in that humanitarian and moral aspect you feel you've done something for yourself, when you see people being successful and when you change people's lives from a bad situation to a good one, that feeling giving gives you strength and a push forward, whenever you do something and see good results from it you feel like doing more, that's why I got involved in this work as it stemmed from my own experience, my work was related to the experience I went through, from the suffering I went through, from the suffering of people which I witnessed. So, I think this was the best experience in my life, I'm grateful that all my children are educated, I didn't neglect any aspect of my family life, all my children got educated and lived a good life, some of my children inherited my desire to give and help people and sympathizing with people who need them, my son is a lawyer, he works at Mizan Human Rights organization, he undertakes cases of people who can't afford to pay his fees, so I feel that there is continuity to the acts of giving, I had an influence on some people and they did similar things, not as much as I do because things are different now, people want to earn their livelihood and the circumstances are difficult. But they have that humanitarian sense towards people in need.
N.P: You talked a little bit about your father and husband.
M.S: Look, my father… they always say that behind every great man there is a woman, but I also say that behind every great woman is a man. A man who is enlightened and open-minded and who has the fear of God in him. As you know the mentality of oriental men in the past and even now, there are educated men who don't believe in women issues. My father was the opposite of that, the people of the village used to say to him: "How could you send her to school with boys? You think she will become a doctor?" He would say: "Yes, why not? It's her God given right, why would I deprive her of it?" So my role model was my father in the first phase. In the second phase it was my late husband, God bless his soul, he sued to help me a lot, he wasn't a traditional man who would stop me from going out as men used to think that women should stay home, but I would travel and attend conferences while he stayed with the children, my children were still young. So, first it was my father then my husband and then my son, my son is proud of me now, when someone mentions Muysser Saadi he says that he's proud I'm his mother, I appeared on TV many times and people would tell him they saw me on TV, so he would say: "My mother is a great woman, she speaks out, she loves people". There is my granddaughter who was in the fifth grade the year I was honored, she was 9 years old, the teacher asked them to write an article about women and children so she wrote about me. My daughter's daughter. The teacher asked her why she wrote about her grandmother and not her mother, she said: "My mother is an ordinary woman, she loves her kids and takes care of them, she feeds them and helps them study like any other mother in the world, but my grandmother is a mother for all people". You see, such things give you a huge moral push, that this little girl considered me her role model, and not her mother, although the mother is always in the front not the grandmother, the grandmother spoils the kids and whatnot, so she considered me a role model. I have another grandson who went to the States this year and he was very accomplished at university, so in the university he was telling them about his family, he's my daughter's son, not my son's son, he was introducing his family, his parents, as you know they ask about these details in America, so he talked about me with pride and he sent me the letter he wrote in school, he said in it: "I learned many things from my grandmother, I learned from her patience and leadership, I learned from her…"



TAPE 2

Muysser Saadi: "to be close to people, feeling their problems and their concerns. I consider my grandmother a role model", so these things, you don't teach them to say these things but it stems from what they feel. This makes me very happy, that there's continuity for what I've done, not for me but for the family, the children, the future generation and as I told you, I'm in a very difficult situation now, I've undergone surgery, I have a herniated disk as well as diabetes and high blood pressure, but still, thank God, I've never thought of quitting my work and staying home and that my message is done, I have a message and I have to go through with it. If I can't go out anymore or can't walk then I might stay home, but as long as I can go out and move around, even if I am using crutches, I have no problem, the most important thing is that God rewards me for the work I do, God has given me great children and that's what we seek, wealth is not about money, wealth is the good children who are leading a successful life, that's what every mother wishes for her children, ad in the end I hope that God will reward us for what we do, because we don't get paid for this, we only seek God's reward.
Nicola Pratt: Did you participate in any other work, political or something?
M.S: Yes, in the 1970's I worked in a political confederation, and that too contributed to forming my personality. Later on, I felt that wasn't what I wanted. It's true that political work is very good and it builds one's personality and helps people to break the fear barrier. But, at a certain point it might have been useful but under the political circumstances not only in the country but in general too, it wasn't very convincing for me. I chose social work; it's where I found myself more than I did in political work. So, I did political work but I did it for our cause, the Palestinian cause, but I found that at this stage doing social and humanitarian work to help people is also a form of struggle, it's no less important than politics, because it's politics too; when you work with people to improve their lives I think it's more important. Politics needs people who are specialized in politics, in Arab countries there is no politics. The politics we see now, the politics of oppression and persecution, it's very painful, that's why I don't have much faith in political issues, I believe in social work and public work, it's where I found myself, I found that as Muysser this is where I should be, not in politics. So, maybe it's an experience you go through but you learn so much from it, but you can't do anything, if you're not a decision maker in politics to influence change, then you can't do anything, while in social work you can influence change, because you're working independently, there's nobody in charge of you telling you what to do and giving you a specific program, there are trends in politics as you know, while social work stems from your own beliefs and convictions, you might do political work without being convinced with what they say but you have to do it, right? That's why I think it was a good experience but personally I think this work is more important.
N.P: And… weren't you a member in the municipal councils?


M.S: Yes, it was a great experience in the municipal councils, I was elected not appointed. I ran for the municipalities elections in the governorate of Amman 15 minutes before the period of candidacy was over. I didn't hold an election campaign, I didn't advertise. My son told me: "How could you run for the elections without preparing yourself?" I said: "I've been serving people for 35 years; I want to see how much I mean for the people I serve. If I win, I will do something even better, if I don't, then I will have failed in polarizing people". Nobody I my family approved because elections need preparation, you need to meet with the people and talk to them. Women used to come to the polling stations without having registered their names, they would beg the person in charge to vote for me, he would tell them they were not registered but they would say: "Please, this woman really helps us, we want to vote for her". He would say: "No way, you need to be registered". So, these people who came out of their own accord without being told to come and vote for Muysser, they gave me a great feeling, it made me so happy, that these people who came appreciated that I served them and helped them. I needed to gain 10% of the votes, I didn't win by the women quota, I won by number of votes. I needed to gain 10% of the votes but I gained 20% of the votes. So I said to my son: "Look, even if I don't win, these women who came to vote for me mean success to me, those who came to vote for me without being registered. Those who believe in me and want to vote for me because I help them, acknowledging that I help them without asking them to do so, that means success to me". I worked in Amman Municipality and built a center in Wadi Al-Haddadeh, a center for information technology with a library for reading and a playground, I've done lots of things, the municipality added a lot to me. This time they told me to run for the elections but I said I didn't want to, because I have health problems and because I had a goal and I achieved it, I wanted to build that center in Wadi Al-Haddadeh because there weren't schools or cultural centers or organizations there, there was nothing. Not even schools. And many children were delinquents, so I said I had a goal and I achieved it, I want to take some rest now, I want to continue working in the organization because there is lots of work and lots of programs there, we now work on the national level, we have a projects in Ma'an, Mafraq, Al-Ghour, not in Amman, we are working outside Amman, and that needs work and effort, so thank God… besides, until now Amman municipality does anything I ask of them, even though I am not in the council, if I ask any employee there for a favor, for the community not for myself, they do it. So, the goal of municipal work is to serve people more and it was a great experience for me, I learned so many things I didn't know before. Municipal work is very different form the work we do, but thankfully we did lots of good things during the time I was there and hopefully those who come after us will carry on with that, we should give a chance to the youth to have a role in serving the society, because they might have a different vision or more enthusiasm, I hope so.
N.P: May I ask, did you face any difficulties in public work because you were a woman?
M.S: Look… now?
N.P: Or in the past


M.S: There were many difficulties and challenges in the past, first there were the challenges of the patriarchal society, the way they viewed women and still view women, despite many changes, that women were not supposed to leave the house, that was a challenge for me; I studied in a boys' school, and then I worked as a nurse, and then I got married early at the age of 16, it's not easy to be married and be studying at the same time, all of these were big challenges, but I didn't deal with that as… maybe this is a piece wisdom I learned from my late father, may God bless his soul, I always had flexibility, I got everything I wanted but through persuasion. For example, sometimes I had to make a compromise and talk to my uncle who was more adamant in being against my going to work, he would say: "Do you think we need you to go to work? What would people say?" I would say: "Forget about people, this is about me, if I'm not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about, you should not listen to people, you will never please people". So, I faced lots of challenges in the beginning, and the challenges when I came from Palestine and stayed in Amman, I had two daughters in Amman and I had none of my family members with me, they were all in Palestine, in the West Bank, I didn't have anyone here, all my family were there while my husband and I were here, my mother in law was an old woman, so that was another challenge, that I had children and I had to go to work, and I didn't work in Amman, I worked in camps in Souf, Jerash and Al-Ghour. I would leave the house at 6 am and return at 4 pm. That was another challenge. I had little children and nobody to take care of them, we had very kind neighbors, the wife didn't have children and she loved my daughters and took care of them, so God facilitated things for me. So that was another big challenge, to live in a country without your family and to work in a different city, and then when I went to Al-Ghour I took my two daughters to work with me because there was nobody to watch them. I would take them with me every day, I'd prepare their food and milk and take them to work, so there was lots of suffering, I went through a very difficult experience, it wasn't easy. All these things I've done in my life were hard, but always what is hard gives you more motivation to overcome the challenge to reach your goals. I worked so much and went through lot of hardships, imagine being responsible for a family at the age of 17, there is a 17-year age difference between me and my eldest daughter, she's like a sister to me, I'm friends with my children, and I've raised them well and all of them are educated, they are married and have jobs and lead successful lives, that means success to me, despite all the hard circumstances I went through. The challenges from the surrounding community, for example they would say to my husband: "How come you're staying home and she goes to work? Why would you let her go to work? Why would you let her travel? She can't keep traveling while you stay home", those were my own relatives, my aunts and others. He would say: "It's her life and she's free to do whatever she wants with it. If she's not neglecting her duties towards her children nobody can say anything, I'm the one who's living with her, not you". So, that was part of the challenges I went through. So, when I got honored by the UN, my husband threw an honorary party for me here in Jordan, which was more important for me than being honored by the UN, because he invited all the public figures, civil society organizations, embassies, in the Family's Diwan. My uncle who defied me, he's 80 years old now, who objected to my work in nursing as they were a conservative family and religious and were against their daughter working in center outside the house, he was the one who honored me, my uncle who was objecting to my work was the one who honored me. I managed to change people's mentality, it might have taken a long time, 35 years, and he was proud that as part of the family I was honored at the highest level, that was big for him, but after so much suffering, if I had given in to their pressures and their mentality and surrendered to reality, I wouldn't have done or changed anything, but I managed to do something very good for my children, my family, my grandchildren, for the society in general and for myself. I'm proud of myself and I'm very pleased with myself for doing these things and I can see the results now. I worked very hard, as I told you I used to take my daughters with me every day to Al-Ghour, and when Al-Karama battle ensued in 1968 I stayed there for 3 days and nobody knew whether I was dead or alive, I was cut off from my family, there were no phones or mobiles or anything, when I came back to Amman people couldn't believe it, my daughters were staying with the neighbors, so that was a tragedy in itself, but thank God that I overcame all these hardships and difficulties and managed to do something for my children and the society I live in, and I consider this work I do as a duty, not a favor, I'm doing this as a duty, because anyone in the world endowed by God with sanity, health, intellect and all of that must serve their people, their country, their society. So I'm saying that I don't consider the work I've done as a favor, it's quite the opposite, it's true that I achieved a goal for myself but it's a duty, and I always say that to my children, don't do anything while thinking what you will get in return, you should do your work while being sure that God will reward you for it, whoever does something good must be rewarded for it by God. I didn't do that work to be rewarded by anyone and yet I was honored at the highest international level, I've ever thought that one say I would be honored or that anyone would pay attention to me, because I do this work for the sake of God, not because I want to get something out of it, but also I gained a good status with people, if you ask anyone in Jordan about Muysser Saadi they will tell you what I did. So that's not easy, it's not easy to gain people's trust, if you're not truly eligible for that trust people won't give it to you. So, I thank God for everything. It was a pleasure seeing you again and I hope that when you finish your thesis you will send me a copy of it.
N.P: Yes, sure.
M.S: I hope that when you finish your thesis you will send me a copy of it, because I have lots of things in my archives, my biography, the things I went through, all of that is documented, maybe if I lived long enough we would put it in a book.
N.P: Okay. Great. May I ask you one last question? What do you think about the new generation with regards to social work?
M.S: I don't have much faith in this generation; because this is the generation of technology and that's creating a huge gap between the older and the younger generations. Even between parents and children, and I think that is very dangerous. This really bothers me, I'm glad you asked me this question. We need to reconsider the way we deal with technology; because it's true that technology is a big branch of science which we all need, but we use it very wrongly. The 5 years-old kid has a cellphone, why? First, the radiations from this cellphone affect children as you know, secondly, why would a school child carry a cellphone? We used to go to school in a different city without any phones and we would go home safe and sound and our parents trusted us and everything, so now these technologies, computers and Internet and whatnot are causing lots of malfunctioning in children, that's why this generation doesn't have any sense of belonging, not even to their families. You'd be sitting with your family and each one would be holding a phone, I always argue with my grandchildren and their father my son, I tell him that this is wrong, don't think that when you get your children everything they want then you're being a good father, you're actually hurting them, they need to live their life and their childhood, they need to go play on the street, they need to think and be creative to make things to play with, they have to make it, instead of the things you get them like Play Station and things like that. That's why this generation should be taught about social work in schools since the elementary phase like they do in Europe. In Europe they study about social work in elementary school, this should start from the family and then the school and then when they grow up they must develop that sense of loyalty to their country, for loyalty is not about shouting "long live the king", it's about how much I serve my country, that is loyalty, how much I serve my country and my society, that is loyalty, it's not about loving the king or the Prime Minister. So, this technology is a double-edged sword, if not used correctly it could be destructive, and we're actually starting to see that, look at the violence that takes place in Jordanian universities, do you live in Jordan?
N.P: No, I live abroad.
M.S: But you hear about this. The violence in universities is unprecedented, the violence at schools, the student who hits his teacher, it has never happened before that a student would hit a teacher, cheating in schools, all of that was the result of disturbances in the society, our life was governed by values and principles, what we learned from our parents, that you have freedom to a certain extent, not that you could do whatever you want, I have the freedom to get educated, to go out and play, to see my friends, but not to hang out all day and consider that freedom, that's not freedom, they understand freedom wrongly. And these internet websites the browse too are what's causing this disturbance in the society, they must be monitored and the state should interfere in that, I always say that in my interviews, that the state should have a role in monitoring the internet, like all other countries, the internet should not be available for all age groups. A child goes into his room ad shuts the door, in his teenage for example, and he browse websites of God knows what, so that too pollutes his mind, that's why I'm telling you I don't have any faith in this generation, unless societies are restructured, educational curricula are reconsidered since elementary schools, because no matter how much reform you do and how much you talk about awareness and programs, you will not have an influence on them like that of the internet, you will not influence them. I've been working in this field for 40 years when I used to talk to girls and women, but the ones in poor areas didn't have the technologies available for rich and well-off people anyway and this is where the most damage happens, there is disturbance in poor communities, but it is more in well-off communities, there are many problems. So I hope things will get better and that we'll avoid any more damage and that there will be intervention at a high level, intervention to reconsider the curricula and to raise the children right, or we will be heading to the abyss. This makes me feel really bad, I've ever imagined seeing the things I'm seeing now, the stories I hear and the sexual assaults, I worked in refugee camps in 1967 and the whole family would sleep in one tent, the whole family would sleep in one tent, yet we didn't hear about problems like the ones we have now; because it's all about the technology which we are not ready for yet. Technology is good and it's a science in itself, but the question is how to use it. In Europe, I know that nobody gives their 5 year-old son a phone, although they have money and they can afford it, but we want to show off and say that our children are carrying Nokia phone or whatever. So, your question was very important for me, and I think that this new generation should be brought up again… thank you.
N.P: Is there anything else?
M.S: No, if you have any other questions… No, I just want to say thank you and I hope that I got the message across, and I have hopes for this generation, we have great women in Jordan with excellent abilities, so I hope they will be able to influence change, we have women in decision making positions with great academic qualifications, minsters, lawyers and judges. Jordan has lots of competent people but I hope they will contribute to change, because if you're not a decision maker you won't be able to change anything, right?
N.P: Right.







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