Interview with Elham Eidarous

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Interview with Elham Eidarous
2014
TAPE 1
Nicola Pratt (later NP.): Can I first ask you where and when you were born?
Elham Eidarous (later EE.): I was born in Giza on December 25th, 1980.
NP. And did you grow up in Cairo?
EE. Yes.
NP. What did you parents do for a living?
EE. My mother was a teacher at a secondary school and my father worked in the public
sector.
NP. Do you have any childhood memories relating to national or political events?
EE. Yes, many. But the political event I remember was the Conscription riots. We were
living in Giza at the time in a neighborhood called Al-Warra', which is poor
neighborhood. I was about nine years old at the time and I remember that there was a
curfew at the time, so we weren't able to leave the house after a certain time and my
mother couldn't go out to get groceries after a certain time, and that the reason was
that the soldiers were on strike. When I got older, I learned that I was the central
security forces, who are the riot police. I think I was eight or nine at the time. Of course,
I remember the Gulf War very well.
NP. Did you take part in any demonstrations opposing the war?
EE. The Gulf War?
NP. Yes.
EE. No, I was too young at the time.
NP. Not even at school?
EE. No, not at school either.
NP. It started in the summer, didn't it? In August? The reason I remember it, is because
we had moved from Al-Warra' to Nasr City. It was a new neighborhood and many
apartments in our apartment buildings were closed, then when the Gulf war started,
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many people moved in. I then learned that these people were Egyptians that had been
working in Gulf that had bought these apartments, but were living in Kuwait or in Iraq;
mostly in Kuwait. When the war started they came back. So, all of a sudden there were a
lot of new people in our building and I realized at a very young age that this was
because of the war. After that, I would often hear my father and his friends discussing
political events and the war. There was a heated discussion in the family about which
side was right; was Saddam the evil enemy and was it wrong of the allied forced to
bomb and Arab country. My father was a socialist and he used to be a member of a
famous communist organization called Haditu and he had anti-imperialist opinions. I
remember he always had different and interesting opinions about the events.
NP. What did you study at university?
EE. I majored in Political Science and the University of Cairo with a minor in Economics.
After that I did translation as a private study for professional reasons, because I didn't
want to work in the field of political science, because I felt that political science wasn't
going to translate into a professional career. I had either the option to work at the
foreign ministry, which I didn't want or to work in Academia and for that I needed to on
the top of my class in order to be able to get a job at the university. I could've become a
researcher, but I felt that I wanted to have a profession that I can earn a living with and
that is 'unbiased' in the sense that it has nothing to do with political affiliations, which is
also the reason that I didn't apply for a job at the foreign ministry upon graduating. So, I
studied translation and later study something that was also in the field of political
science, which is Human Rights. During my studies at the university I concentrated on
themes of social and economic rights and the working class. My 'BA' graduation project
was about labor unions in the new industrial cities, where there are almost no labor
unions. Another project I worked on at university was about strikes entitled 'Legal
justification of the right to strike: A Civil and political right or an economic right?' So, it
was about the 'the legal basis of justification'. This is one the areas I'm interested in.
Other than that, I'm also interested in other fields such as women's rights and
[inaudible: 6:30.0]. Lately, I've always become interested in reproductive rights, as well.
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NP. During your university years, were a member of a student group o movement?
EE. Political?
NP. Of course. At university, I was a member of a student group called Socialist
Students, which was considered to have close ties with the Revolutionary Socialists, but
I wasn't a member of Revolutionary Socialists. It was a group of students who had
'broader' views than those of the Revolutionary Socialists. Nevertheless, it was very
similar to them politically and ideologically, but the security forces would treat us as if
we were part of the Revolutionary Socialists, but we had a different approach. At the
Socialist Student we would organize exhibitions and demonstrations on the university
level. In my own school, I took part in different activities. We had a club for the school,
which we called a family, where we would discuss matters concerning the school,
politics and women's rights. For example on International Women's Day we would
organize art and photography exhibitions and screen films. When the Second Intifada
started, I was in my junior year and there were a lot of movements supporting it within
the university and my school as well.
NP. What about outside the university?
EE. No. My activity was limited to the university. I might have attended at forum or talk,
but that was it. After graduating, I became more active in public political life.
NP. Can you tell me more about your activities after graduating?
EE. You mean in public life?
NP. Yes.
EE. In the time I graduated university, the political change movement was starting in
Egypt and I joined the Egyptian Movement for Change - Kefaya. Within Kefaya there
was youth called Youth for Change, which sometimes would clash with the movement.
So, I was joined and they used to organize demonstration. In 2004, they became more
active and they would organize many activities around the subject of political change,
but I was part of an organization that was part of the revolution.
NP. So, you didn't join the Revolutionary Socialist?
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EE. No, I didn't. There were many organizations, but I didn't join any of them.
Nevertheless, I was active in the Movement for Change, which included [inaudible:
10:06.7] and many others.
NP. Was there a specific reason why you didn't join any group?
EE. The organization that were there before the revolution were either the official
parties, which had a lot problems with their political leaders and with the regime or the
unofficial groups, such as the Revolutionary Socialists, and I was very close to them
ideologically. Excuse me! Not ideologically, I meant, politically. I always admired their
struggle and that they were a true opposition that never compromised on their beliefs
with the regime, but my only objection was the way they saw the Islamic movement in
Egypt, which I didn't agree with early on. I also didn't agree with their early publications.
Another thing is that I was never a fan of the idea of a secret organization. Of course,
they're not a secret organization; everybody in Egypt knows the Revolutionary Socialists,
but I mean because of difficult legal situation in Egypt, they were considered as a kind of
secret organization. I always felt that one should be part of an official organization, even
within an oppressive system, because in our digital age, everybody knows everything.
Even the security forces know everything. But the main problem I had with them was
mainly ideological. So, for me, there wasn't a single organization or group that I felt in
sync with ideologically and politically, but I would just take part in different events.
NP. Did you know that there were going to be demonstrations on the January 25th?
EE. I did, but I didn't think they would that 'large'. I knew they would be big, some
people would get beaten and others arrested and that would be it. I felt that the
activists wouldn't spread the invitations to the demonstration as much as they did so
that there wouldn't be too much of a disappointment afterwards. I imagined it would be
a large wave of demonstrations, such as the one which followed the war on Iraq or the
one after the death of Khaled Saeed, but of course, it wasn't and millions showed up.
NP. Did you go down to the demonstration?
EE. Yes, but I didn't imagine it would this big. Before the revolution, I was involved in a
field that is also important to me, which fighting sectarianism and religious
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discrimination, especially in the year before the revolution. Personally, I think that the
religious discrimination and attacks due to it was one the most important precursors for
the revolution. There were many attacks that happened in Egypt due to religious
discrimination, but there was on in particular at the Omraniya Church, in which the
police was criticized strongly for using excessive force against many civilians. There was
also incitement by religious extremists and three people were killed. Till today, no one
has been held accountable for the events at the Omraniya Church. So, I joined a
movement that was addressing this subject and we formed a committee to defend the
people of Omraniya, and I met people that later on played very important roles in the
revolution, some of them who even became martyrs, such as Mina Danial. When I first
met him, he was a very young man only 18 years old. After the attacks on the Omraniya
Church, we organized many protests in front of the court house and we tried to get in
touch with the families of the victims, who we scared of the security forces and the
church at the same time, which was trying to stop them from getting in contact with
political activists. In my opinion, that was one of the main precursors of the revolution.
NP. After Mubarak's ouster, what was your involvement in public life like?
EE. I decided to join a party. I've always been part of the leftist movement since I was
young girl at university. I always leaned towards socialist ideal and leftist thinking that is
based on equality and the redistribution of wealth and so on. 'Ideologically', I wasn't
very strict about a certain school of thought. I would read a bit in Trotskyism and bit
about Dependency theory. So, I read about many approaches, but this is my main one.
During the revolution, especially during the 18- day sit-ins against Mubarak, I was one of
the people that had a strong feeling that there was a problem with the revolution,
because the Left was unorganized. I would walk around Tahrir Square and see
thousands of people that I know from my work with the leftist groups and I saw how
they were unorganized. They were divided into small cliques, each doing their own small
scale work. I thought that the revolution wouldn't start because there weren't any
democratic parties or organizations in Egypt. The only ones around were the Islamist
groups or groups that were part of the National Democratic Party. The revolution
5


started because of the contradiction, but it couldn't take a political form and have
organizations and programs that define its purpose because there weren't any
democratic organizations that would work toward achieving the general goals of
democracy, such as social justice. I believe that democracy can't be solely about politics.
This was the reason that I decided to join a party, because I felt that people like me
don't have the luxury of not getting organized, even if I wasn't a hundred per cent
satisfied with the organizations, on a political or an ideological level and so on. There
was an open invitation, one day before Mubarak stepped down, to found a new leftist
party and I joined this invitation from the first day. Today, this party is called the Popular
Socialist Alliance Party and I joined it from the day it was founded and I resigned on
November 8, 2013. In the three years I was with party, my main political activities were
through the party. I was a member of its preparatory committee, which supervised the
founding process and then after it was founded I become a member of its central
committee, which is basically the leadership of the party. I think we did many good
things within that party. We were able to recruit different kinds of members, such as
traditional leftists or the ideological leftist and youth who had leftist leanings, and I
think we made some good achievements. Later, I left the party because of certain
reasons that I can tell you about later. From the time, my contribution to the revolution
has been as a member of a party. Of course, I had my own interests that didn't have
anything to do with the party, but my direct participation was through the party.
NP. Why did you feel like you had to work through and organization of party?
EE. As a holder of degree in political science and someone who has read a bit about
history, I realized that the millions of people that went out into the streets would need a
political voice. The Islamists were also very present at Tahrir square, they were
organized and had political organization and prominent political figures within their
ranks and we didn't have. There are, of course symbols of the revolutions such as El-
Baradei, but they don't represent a certain group but rather an idea and certain values
and they won't matter when the real work begins. Millions of people did go out into the
streets, but once they leave the only thing that will remain are the organization and the
6


parties and they will be the ones that have in 'say' in matters, whether when
negotiating with the government or opposing it. At the beginning, when the people
went out into the streets it was spontaneous and beautiful, but it soon proved that it
needed organization, even on a small scale like Tahrir Square, which after some time
became an 'ungoverned and uncontrolled space' during the time that we and the civil
and democratic forces were there and the Islamists weren't. After a referendum in
March of 2011, the Islamists had decided to stay off the streets and would only come
down to counter the popular movement, like what happened on Kandahar Friday. Have
you heard of it? It took place on July 29 of 2011. The Islamists had called for a huge
demonstration at Tahrir square and so it was dubbed Kandahar, because when you
would look out at the crowds of Islamists you would think you were in Afghanistan. I
believe that large scale popular rally must be organized in order to have 'perspective'.
Another thing is that when the popular movement disperses and the time for politics
comes, whether negotiations or boycotts or whatever, there have to be organized
groups in place. Thirdly, when dealing with the Squares one has to realize that it's not a
'utopia', such Tahrir Square and others where sit-ins were being held. These places
became out of the control of the state and we learned the hard way the importance of
having a system and organization. That's why later on there were incidents of theft and
rape at Tahrir Square. We should've dealt with the situation by getting organized,
whether politically or otherwise. There's a form of organization to suit any taste. I'm not
partial to certain kind of organization, but I only know how to be politically organized.
But there are other kinds on a community level and they are also important and I
support them. Personally I chose this kind for myself, which was the political one and I
believe in its importance. The revolution against the Muslim brotherhood was started by
the organized groups that had clear intellectual mindset. Forget about June 30th; that
was the end of it. The revolution against Morsi started as early as October. Morsi was
sworn into office in June 2012 and by October 2012 the 100-day demonstrations, as
they were called, had started, in reference to 100 days of Morsi and the Muslim
Brotherhood in power. These demonstrations were first started by the Left. They took
7


place also at Tahrir square and the demonstrators were attacked by members of the
Muslim Brotherhood. 'The whole world' keeps talking about June 30th although things
had already started way before that. The militias of the Muslim Brotherhood came and
beat people and destroyed the stages that our party and the other parties had built. The
parties that were there include the Popular Socialist Alliance Party, which I was a
member of, the Popular Movement, the Egyptian Socialists and the Revolutionary
Socialists. So, it was organized by leftist or somewhat nasserist groups. This was in
October when the Muslim Brotherhood came and destroyed the stage and ruined
everything. A week after that we started a campaign called "Egypt is not a 'Ezbah",
which is a word refers to "a small village governed by one lord. I forgot the word in
English. There is a word in English forthat.' So by "Egypt is not a Ezbah" we were trying
to tell Morsi that Egypt 'is not your playground, it for everybody, and they couldn't
touch the demonstrations. These demonstration were organized by parties. That was
important. Later in December, when the demonstrations went to the presidential palace
the Muslim Brotherhood militias came in and there was a big battle in front of the
presidential place. All this was done by organized [parties]. Even when political parties
joined forces in the Salvation Front that was the work of organized people. Parties and
organizations that understood very much that no we will not be able to continue under
the rule of these people; the Muslim Brotherhood. That we have to be in the opposition
and to put them to the test: whether they will accept to play by certain rules and not try
to be hegemonic. So for me that was a must. There should be political organization,
especially that under Mubarak for like 30 years - not just thirty, its actually 60 years -
but especially under Mubarak, we didn't have democratic life. Only in the early 2000s -
in 2004 and 2005 - there was struggle against that kind of dictatorship, which made the
country completely empty of politics in the organized and elaborated sense of the word.
But the struggle was to deconstruct the existing system by it didn't build another on [in
its place] and it was impossible to build another one under these... we have to bring it
down and start from... So we had to start quick, actually. So, I joined the party at the
8


time and I continued there for three years. I think it was important and we did
important things. For example... I'm switching between English and Arabic, is that ok?'
NP. Yes, Whatever you want. It's fine, don't worry.
EE. In November 2011, there were parliamentary elections and 'at the party' we made a
election list and 'we had two thirds for PR lists one third for individual seats so, we made
a list... the party made a list called "The revolution continues" and we gathered some
revolutionary groups, and we made some kind of political representation of the
revolution and of the idea of it in the eyes of the people. We got around 8000 votes and
that's good for us, because we didn't have money or famous people or anything. We got
5 seats I the parliament and that was good, in our standards. We started to build
ourselves as a party. But later things... I couldn't continue and now I'm in a new party.
It's called the Bread and Liberty Party.' We only started it about 2 months ago and 'we
only have about 300 people or something. We're just starting. We don't have formal
registration yet, because we are still few in number, but we are good'
NP. Why did you leave the Popular Socialist Alliance Party?
EE. First of all, remind me to send you our resignation. We prepared a resignation letter,
which was supposed to be internal, but it got leaked to the press. So, 'fine, I will send it
to you', since you can read Arabic. It states the reasons politely. Simply, the party had its
problems. This party was considered as a rebuilding of the left after the revolution.
There was only formal part before the revolution; Tagammu. That party was very
important back in the 80s. The newspaper it published, Al-Ahali, was only second to Al-
Ahram, which is the state newspaper in terms of distribution. It had no formal
subscription and it would distribute about 150,000 to 200,000 copies, which is a big
number for us. They had offices in many areas. As a child of 7 or 8, I saw children playing
a soccer tournament to win the Khaled Mohieddin Cup. Mohieddin is the founder of
Tagammu and was part of the Free Officers Movement, if you've heard of it. In a
village...
TAPE 2
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EE. ...in a village, deep it the backcountry of Upper Egypt, there were children playing
soccer tournament called the Khalid Mohieddin Cup and the prize was a book about
socialism and the history of the nationalist movement. The Tagammu was still very
present and strong in the 80s. Then in the 90s, it 'started' becoming the leftist arm of
the regime rather than the opposition due to many and complex reasons. My
generation even counted Tagammu as an enemy and not as a party that even remotely
represents us. After the revolution, there had to be a restricting of the left; a new party
that will unite the revolutionary left of revolution of January 25th, because there were
some leftist parties that were on good terms with the oppressive regime, not out of love
for the regime, but rather out of fear of the Islamists. We refused this sort of
compromise.
We felt that left wing groups that took part in the revolution and weren't scared - You
see where the problem was? The reason some people were afraid to take part in the
revolution was that they were worried that the Islamists would hijack it and rise to
power, considering that they were the ready 'alternative'. So, there were parts of the
left, including
Tagammu, who 'officially' were against the revolution, for this reason. So, we founded
our party at that time so it can be a rebuild of the left wing parties, of course, on a
revolutionary and democratic basis that is willing to take the risk. Not just against
Mubarak; even when the revolutionary forces would go out into the street to demand
that the military council be dissolved, that the power be handed over and that we
wanted civilian rule. All of us knew that the Islamists were the ones most prepared,
when were pressuring the military council to hand over power. We were taking not this
risk not because we like the Islamists; we know they are a backward thinking bunch and
fascists and all that, but we knew it was a battle we had to fight. We couldn't just
keeping living under a military rule, accept the massacres it was committing and the
deals it was cutting with the Islamists on the side. All this was being done at our
expense. When we as a party wanted to start restructuring the left, there were many
10


supporters that joined us. This is something that you won't find in the official
resignation letter: When we were founding the party, 'we thought' that these new
members were the most democratic and open within the different leftist groups. There
were ones from Tagammu; a large group that resigned and led by Ghaffar Shukri, who
is now the leader of the party. He had strong democratic stands against the leadership
of Tagammu, based on the respect for human right, which is something very important
to us even in our fight against the Islamists. Although they are our political enemies, we
can't accept any human rights violations against them. And of course, we are against
their crimes against human rights, whether against the Copts or against women and so
on, but I can never accept human rights violations, such as torture, the state's battle
against them or in war against terror the state fought in the 90s. So, we had a new
member that had come to us from Tagammu, from a group called the change
movement within Tagammu, which was led by Ghaffar Shukri. Then there also members
from the Socialist Renewal movement, who were groups that 'split' from the
Revolutionary Socialists, but they were still more open. They were against the
Revolutionary Socialists or the workers party, which was closed and dogmatic and
believed in more openness. There were also many independent socialists, such as the
social democrats and others. This combination made up the Popular Socialist Alliance
Party and it was a good and 'promising' combination. I felt that we couldn't reinstitute
the left out of nothing. We needed to grow it with the help of more open elements
within the ideological left, so that we can get organized and move toward a societal left
and by that I mean the people struggling to achieve leftist goals and that coincide with
the leftist agenda, but do not necessarily label themselves as leftist from an ideological
standing point. So, we thought that the left has to work together to bring these people
closer to it. But as time went by, internal organizational issues arouse and after the
party elections, the classic leftist movement that came from Tagammu became the most
prominent and it started crowding us out. Personally, and there are many like me within
the party - by the way, when I resigned, I did it along with about a hundred others - I
didn't have a problem with this and we were willing to go on, even though the
11


transitional leftist were crowding us out. I was nominated for the position of General
Secretary of the party and 'it was very close that I lost it'. 'That was important' not
because of winning or losing, but it goes to show that the party had two strong
movements. 'If we assume' that the ones that elected the other candidate were the
traditionalists and ones that voted from me were the ones that were more modern
leftist, that shows that we weren't a minority. So, there was really no problem if we
continued. The central committee was made of 130 members and I lost by five votes.
There are many criteria for measuring this, but if this was one of them, then we weren't
a minority at all. The problem was and the crisis that made us leave had to do with the
events of June 30th. The approach of the party and the traditionalists' dominance over it
made it clear that it wasn't just an organizational matter, but a political stand. After June
30th crisis - and you can read this in my resignation in detail - and although we wanted
it and worked toward it by organizations; we were already demonstrating and calling
from his disposal two months into his term, and I still believe, despite all the threats to
democracy in Egypt, which is something we can address later, the oppression we see
around us and the totalitarian state we are in, that if the Islamists finished their term
ruling Egypt, all traces of democracy would've been wiped out. So, we are now paying
the price of getting rid of a grave danger, which the rule of the Muslim brotherhood.
The danger we are in now is a different kind of throat, but when June 30th stated it was
very clear that we have to play a big role in pressuring the current government, even
though if it seemed to be one our side in the beginning - of course, it wasn't. Do you
know how June 30th came to be? June 30th was an unspoken alliance. No one sat on
table together and discussed it, but it was understood that there was some sort of an
alliance that was formed by the revolutionary forces and at their heart were the leftist
groups and the groups that were against the rule of the Muslim Brotherhood from the
beginning. Some people died because of this and the Muslim brotherhood even
kidnapped some our members and tortured them at the presidential palace ands during
the demonstration preceding June 30th. The Muslim Brotherhood committed crimes in
many Egyptian neighborhoods and people still don't get why they get beaten up when
12


they go out in demonstrations. It's because they committed crimes against these
people; they would go through neighborhoods toting Kalashnikovs and fire in the streets
just to terrorize. To an extent, they were punishing the society. So the unspoken alliance
of June 30th included the revolutionary forces and was later joined by the state forces,
the army and the supporters of Mubarak regime. In the first 6-10 moths of Morsi's rule,
the state security agencies and Mubarak's supporters where trying to ally with him. We
were the only ones that were against everyone. For example, the ministry of interior
butchered people during demonstrations to please Morsi, but they failed to ally with
him so they turned against him. Then they turned to the revolutionary forces, which
were against Morsi from the very beginning. That's how this unspoken alliance came to
be. As for the government that came into power on July 3rd, we at the party proposed -
and this was an important part of our resignation - that it was a 'mix', but that the state
agencies and Mubarak's supporters had the upper hand, who are oppressors and
enemies of the revolution and democracy and we wanted to know what our role would
be. Of course, the 'ultra-radicals' choose to leave immediately, go out on the street, say
that this is a traitor government and an enemy of the people and that it should be
brought down. Naturally, I wasn't for this , because people have to make up their own
minds about it. So, I, along with a large group of people that left, proposed that we
should be a democratic and institutional opposition and not a revolutionary opposition
of the current rule. We would recognize its legitimacy and that it deposed Morsi, which
is a good thing. We would recognize the striking down of the Muslim Brotherhood's
constitution, which was a something very ugly, but that we would remain 'outspoken'
about all the problems they had caused when they came into power. We would remain
'outspoken' for two reasons. First of all, so we can obtain as many social and democratic
reforms for the people at this point. Secondly, so that we don't leave the Muslim
Brotherhood to be the only opposition on the political arena. That would be a threat to
democracy and would give the
Islamists wide popular reach once more. This was the vision that I personally, with
others, defended. The party on the other hand went into a mode of bootlicking the
13


government and it was very bad. They wouldn't speak out or make any sort of critique.
Problems started to show in the performance of the government. First of all, when the
Bebalwi government was formed, we demanded that we propose a program to state
what was required of Bebalwi's government, [inaudible: 11:55.6], the state stood by
while the Christians in Egypt were being beaten in a disciplinary campaign that spanned
the whole country and especially in southern Egypt. They claim that they are fighting
terrorism and religious extremism but they just left the Christians to fend for
themselves. The president didn't even know the situation in Delga village in Al-Minya,
until we, as a party wrote him a detailed letter about it and gave it to him at a meeting.
We told him that this is what was happening in Egypt and that there is a village under
complete control of the Muslim Brotherhood. There wasn't a single Christian house that
was left unharmed. They were made to pay Jizya, they can't go to work and their
daughters would be stripped of their clothes in the streets in front of their families as
punishment for deposing Morsi. So, the Christians were 'scapegoats'. Also, the way the
Rabaa sit-ins were cleared, which should never have been in that barbaric way. So, the
idea was that we wanted to e critics of the current government, because we knew that
they were going to create a problems, so there needed to be a rational, institutional and
democratic opposition, but that tries to fix the wrongdoings of the government or stop
it. The party decided that [inaudible: 13:17.1], so it kept quite. So, we didn't know how
we could do any work anymore. Are you leaving? I'm staying a bit.
NP. I'm just going to pay my check.
EE. Mine as well?
NP. Yes.
EE. But...
NP. But, please go on.
2. This has something to do with why I left the party. After June 30th, in general, there
was a struggle between the old way and the new way. 'By the way', this also happened
with the other parties that tried to rebuild other political parties, like the Strong Egypt
Party. Strong Egypt is only an attempt to rebuild the Islamist movement and create a
14


new form of it. There you'd find struggle between the ex-Muslim Brotherhood members
and the ones that stayed with the Brotherhood. You'll find this sort of struggle
everywhere actually, and especially in the movements that are trying to rebuild
themselves. This is normal; it's like the process of labor before a movement can be born,
especially after decade of oppression, of course, there many different political and
organizational mixtures. The problem o June 30th was the groveling way the party was
behaving toward the government. This made us feel like there wasn't any place for us
there anymore so we made the tough decision of leaving. Now we are reestablishing
ourselves, 'slowly, but surely', I hope, in this new experiment.
1. Do you a certain standing regarding the constitution?
2. The current constitution is a problem, of course. It's much better than the Muslim
Brotherhood constitution - 'Incomparable', in my opinion. The situation for civil liberties
is much better in it, in addition to other things as well, but there's a danger... Remind
me to send you the view of the party regarding the constitution, too. So, it does have
some major issues as well, such as the situation of the military. By the way, this is part of
the Muslim Brotherhood's legacy; theirs was the first constitution to include such
immunities for the military. It was normal that the military would enjoy this special
position in their constitution, although their government was supposed to be an elected
and civil government, in a time when . The committee of 50 wasn't going to convene
unless it was guarded by tanks, after all. So, it was normal that the army would have
such 'privileges'. But this is a problem within the constitution and that's why I will reject
it. Another problem it has is that it prepares the way for a more progressed free market
economy in Egypt. It has a very cunning element; it governs the social and economic
rights, but the new economic policy of the state takes a much more liberal turn. This, of
course, is a conundrum. How can you protect social and economic rights in a developing
and backward country like Egypt if you're on a liberal path? These are my criticisms of it.
It must be said that there many development regarding civil rights and women's' right
and it incomparable to the previous situation. Previously, there was a huge battle
regarding women's rights. So you can't say that this constitution is the military's
15


constitution, because before this version emerged from the Committee of 50, there was
one that emerged from the expert committee, which is the Committee of 10. In the
version of the Committee of 10, the situation of civil and women' rights was very bad
and the privileges of the army were the same and so on. So, a battle ensued within the
Committee of 50, in which many democratic elements were able to obtain some of their
goals, but they couldn't change the situation regarding the privileges of the army. So, I
think this constitution , in general, is a bit better, but it still contains many trap, which is
why we refuse it. I'll send you the party's statement regarding the constitution.
1. I'm very sorry, but I need to finish up here right now.
2. Okay
16

Interview with Elham Eidarous
2014

TAPE 1

Nicola Pratt (later NP.): Can I first ask you where and when you were born?
Elham Eidarous (later EE.): I was born in Giza on December 25th, 1980.
NP. And did you grow up in Cairo?
EE. Yes.
NP. What did you parents do for a living?
EE. My mother was a teacher at a secondary school and my father worked in the public sector.
NP. Do you have any childhood memories relating to national or political events?
EE. Yes, many. But the political event I remember was the Conscription riots. We were living in Giza at the time in a neighborhood called Al-Warra’, which is poor neighborhood. I was about nine years old at the time and I remember that there was a curfew at the time, so we weren’t able to leave the house after a certain time and my mother couldn’t go out to get groceries after a certain time, and that the reason was that the soldiers were on strike. When I got older, I learned that I was the central security forces, who are the riot police. I think I was eight or nine at the time. Of course, I remember the Gulf War very well.
NP. Did you take part in any demonstrations opposing the war?
EE. The Gulf War?
NP. Yes.
EE. No, I was too young at the time.
NP. Not even at school?
EE. No, not at school either.
NP. It started in the summer, didn’t it? In August? The reason I remember it, is because we had moved from Al-Warra’ to Nasr City. It was a new neighborhood and many apartments in our apartment buildings were closed, then when the Gulf war started, many people moved in. I then learned that these people were Egyptians that had been working in Gulf that had bought these apartments, but were living in Kuwait or in Iraq; mostly in Kuwait. When the war started they came back. So, all of a sudden there were a lot of new people in our building and I realized at a very young age that this was because of the war. After that, I would often hear my father and his friends discussing political events and the war. There was a heated discussion in the family about which side was right; was Saddam the evil enemy and was it wrong of the allied forced to bomb and Arab country. My father was a socialist and he used to be a member of a famous communist organization called Haditu and he had anti-imperialist opinions. I remember he always had different and interesting opinions about the events.
NP. What did you study at university?
EE. I majored in Political Science and the University of Cairo with a minor in Economics. After that I did translation as a private study for professional reasons, because I didn’t want to work in the field of political science, because I felt that political science wasn’t going to translate into a professional career. I had either the option to work at the foreign ministry, which I didn’t want or to work in Academia and for that I needed to on the top of my class in order to be able to get a job at the university. I could’ve become a researcher, but I felt that I wanted to have a profession that I can earn a living with and that is ‘unbiased’ in the sense that it has nothing to do with political affiliations, which is also the reason that I didn’t apply for a job at the foreign ministry upon graduating. So, I studied translation and later study something that was also in the field of political science, which is Human Rights. During my studies at the university I concentrated on themes of social and economic rights and the working class. My ‘BA’ graduation project was about labor unions in the new industrial cities, where there are almost no labor unions. Another project I worked on at university was about strikes entitled ‘Legal justification of the right to strike: A Civil and political right or an economic right?’ So, it was about the ‘the legal basis of justification’. This is one the areas I’m interested in. Other than that, I’m also interested in other fields such as women’s rights and [inaudible: 6:30.0]. Lately, I’ve always become interested in reproductive rights, as well.
NP. During your university years, were a member of a student group o movement?
EE. Political?
NP. Of course. At university, I was a member of a student group called Socialist Students, which was considered to have close ties with the Revolutionary Socialists, but I wasn’t a member of Revolutionary Socialists. It was a group of students who had ‘broader’ views than those of the Revolutionary Socialists. Nevertheless, it was very similar to them politically and ideologically, but the security forces would treat us as if we were part of the Revolutionary Socialists, but we had a different approach. At the Socialist Student we would organize exhibitions and demonstrations on the university level. In my own school, I took part in different activities. We had a club for the school, which we called a family, where we would discuss matters concerning the school, politics and women’s rights. For example on International Women’s Day we would organize art and photography exhibitions and screen films. When the Second Intifada started, I was in my junior year and there were a lot of movements supporting it within the university and my school as well.
NP. What about outside the university?
EE. No. My activity was limited to the university. I might have attended at forum or talk, but that was it. After graduating, I became more active in public political life.
NP. Can you tell me more about your activities after graduating?
EE. You mean in public life?
NP. Yes.
EE. In the time I graduated university, the political change movement was starting in Egypt and I joined the Egyptian Movement for Change – Kefaya. Within Kefaya there was youth called Youth for Change, which sometimes would clash with the movement. So, I was joined and they used to organize demonstration. In 2004, they became more active and they would organize many activities around the subject of political change, but I was part of an organization that was part of the revolution.
NP. So, you didn’t join the Revolutionary Socialist?
EE. No, I didn’t. There were many organizations, but I didn’t join any of them. Nevertheless, I was active in the Movement for Change, which included [inaudible: 10:06.7] and many others.
NP. Was there a specific reason why you didn’t join any group?
EE. The organization that were there before the revolution were either the official parties, which had a lot problems with their political leaders and with the regime or the unofficial groups, such as the Revolutionary Socialists, and I was very close to them ideologically. Excuse me! Not ideologically, I meant, politically. I always admired their struggle and that they were a true opposition that never compromised on their beliefs with the regime, but my only objection was the way they saw the Islamic movement in Egypt, which I didn’t agree with early on. I also didn’t agree with their early publications. Another thing is that I was never a fan of the idea of a secret organization. Of course, they’re not a secret organization; everybody in Egypt knows the Revolutionary Socialists, but I mean because of difficult legal situation in Egypt, they were considered as a kind of secret organization. I always felt that one should be part of an official organization, even within an oppressive system, because in our digital age, everybody knows everything. Even the security forces know everything. But the main problem I had with them was mainly ideological. So, for me, there wasn’t a single organization or group that I felt in sync with ideologically and politically, but I would just take part in different events.
NP. Did you know that there were going to be demonstrations on the January 25th?
EE. I did, but I didn’t think they would that ‘large’. I knew they would be big, some people would get beaten and others arrested and that would be it. I felt that the activists wouldn’t spread the invitations to the demonstration as much as they did so that there wouldn’t be too much of a disappointment afterwards. I imagined it would be a large wave of demonstrations, such as the one which followed the war on Iraq or the one after the death of Khaled Saeed, but of course, it wasn’t and millions showed up.
NP. Did you go down to the demonstration?
EE. Yes, but I didn’t imagine it would this big. Before the revolution, I was involved in a field that is also important to me, which fighting sectarianism and religious discrimination, especially in the year before the revolution. Personally, I think that the religious discrimination and attacks due to it was one the most important precursors for the revolution. There were many attacks that happened in Egypt due to religious discrimination, but there was on in particular at the Omraniya Church, in which the police was criticized strongly for using excessive force against many civilians. There was also incitement by religious extremists and three people were killed. Till today, no one has been held accountable for the events at the Omraniya Church. So, I joined a movement that was addressing this subject and we formed a committee to defend the people of Omraniya, and I met people that later on played very important roles in the revolution, some of them who even became martyrs, such as Mina Danial. When I first met him, he was a very young man only 18 years old. After the attacks on the Omraniya Church, we organized many protests in front of the court house and we tried to get in touch with the families of the victims, who we scared of the security forces and the church at the same time, which was trying to stop them from getting in contact with political activists. In my opinion, that was one of the main precursors of the revolution.
NP. After Mubarak’s ouster, what was your involvement in public life like?
EE. I decided to join a party. I’ve always been part of the leftist movement since I was young girl at university. I always leaned towards socialist ideal and leftist thinking that is based on equality and the redistribution of wealth and so on. ‘Ideologically’, I wasn’t very strict about a certain school of thought. I would read a bit in Trotskyism and bit about Dependency theory. So, I read about many approaches, but this is my main one. During the revolution, especially during the 18- day sit-ins against Mubarak, I was one of the people that had a strong feeling that there was a problem with the revolution, because the Left was unorganized. I would walk around Tahrir Square and see thousands of people that I know from my work with the leftist groups and I saw how they were unorganized. They were divided into small cliques, each doing their own small scale work. I thought that the revolution wouldn’t start because there weren’t any democratic parties or organizations in Egypt. The only ones around were the Islamist groups or groups that were part of the National Democratic Party. The revolution started because of the contradiction, but it couldn’t take a political form and have organizations and programs that define its purpose because there weren’t any democratic organizations that would work toward achieving the general goals of democracy, such as social justice. I believe that democracy can’t be solely about politics. This was the reason that I decided to join a party, because I felt that people like me don’t have the luxury of not getting organized, even if I wasn’t a hundred per cent satisfied with the organizations, on a political or an ideological level and so on. There was an open invitation, one day before Mubarak stepped down, to found a new leftist party and I joined this invitation from the first day. Today, this party is called the Popular Socialist Alliance Party and I joined it from the day it was founded and I resigned on November 8, 2013. In the three years I was with party, my main political activities were through the party. I was a member of its preparatory committee, which supervised the founding process and then after it was founded I become a member of its central committee, which is basically the leadership of the party. I think we did many good things within that party. We were able to recruit different kinds of members, such as traditional leftists or the ideological leftist and youth who had leftist leanings, and I think we made some good achievements. Later, I left the party because of certain reasons that I can tell you about later. From the time, my contribution to the revolution has been as a member of a party. Of course, I had my own interests that didn’t have anything to do with the party, but my direct participation was through the party.
NP. Why did you feel like you had to work through and organization of party?
EE. As a holder of degree in political science and someone who has read a bit about history, I realized that the millions of people that went out into the streets would need a political voice. The Islamists were also very present at Tahrir square, they were organized and had political organization and prominent political figures within their ranks and we didn’t have. There are, of course symbols of the revolutions such as El-Baradei, but they don’t represent a certain group but rather an idea and certain values and they won’t matter when the real work begins. Millions of people did go out into the streets, but once they leave the only thing that will remain are the organization and the parties and they will be the ones that have in ‘say’ in matters, whether when negotiating with the government or opposing it. At the beginning, when the people went out into the streets it was spontaneous and beautiful, but it soon proved that it needed organization, even on a small scale like Tahrir Square, which after some time became an ‘ungoverned and uncontrolled space’ during the time that we and the civil and democratic forces were there and the Islamists weren’t. After a referendum in March of 2011, the Islamists had decided to stay off the streets and would only come down to counter the popular movement, like what happened on Kandahar Friday. Have you heard of it? It took place on July 29 of 2011. The Islamists had called for a huge demonstration at Tahrir square and so it was dubbed Kandahar, because when you would look out at the crowds of Islamists you would think you were in Afghanistan. I believe that large scale popular rally must be organized in order to have ‘perspective’. Another thing is that when the popular movement disperses and the time for politics comes, whether negotiations or boycotts or whatever, there have to be organized groups in place. Thirdly, when dealing with the Squares one has to realize that it’s not a ‘utopia’, such Tahrir Square and others where sit-ins were being held. These places became out of the control of the state and we learned the hard way the importance of having a system and organization. That’s why later on there were incidents of theft and rape at Tahrir Square. We should’ve dealt with the situation by getting organized, whether politically or otherwise. There’s a form of organization to suit any taste. I’m not partial to certain kind of organization, but I only know how to be politically organized. But there are other kinds on a community level and they are also important and I support them. Personally I chose this kind for myself, which was the political one and I believe in its importance. The revolution against the Muslim brotherhood was started by the organized groups that had clear intellectual mindset. Forget about June 30th; that was the end of it. The revolution against Morsi started as early as October. Morsi was sworn into office in June 2012 and by October 2012 the 100-day demonstrations, as they were called, had started, in reference to 100 days of Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood in power. These demonstrations were first started by the Left. They took place also at Tahrir square and the demonstrators were attacked by members of the Muslim Brotherhood. ‘The whole world’ keeps talking about June 30th although things had already started way before that. The militias of the Muslim Brotherhood came and beat people and destroyed the stages that our party and the other parties had built. The parties that were there include the Popular Socialist Alliance Party, which I was a member of, the Popular Movement, the Egyptian Socialists and the Revolutionary Socialists. So, it was organized by leftist or somewhat nasserist groups. This was in October when the Muslim Brotherhood came and destroyed the stage and ruined everything. A week after that we started a campaign called “Egypt is not a 'Ezbah”, which is a word refers to “a small village governed by one lord. I forgot the word in English. There is a word in English for that.’ So by “Egypt is not a Ezbah” we were trying to tell Morsi that Egypt ‘is not your playground, it for everybody, and they couldn’t touch the demonstrations. These demonstration were organized by parties. That was important. Later in December, when the demonstrations went to the presidential palace the Muslim Brotherhood militias came in and there was a big battle in front of the presidential place. All this was done by organized [parties]. Even when political parties joined forces in the Salvation Front that was the work of organized people. Parties and organizations that understood very much that no we will not be able to continue under the rule of these people; the Muslim Brotherhood. That we have to be in the opposition and to put them to the test: whether they will accept to play by certain rules and not try to be hegemonic. So for me that was a must. There should be political organization, especially that under Mubarak for like 30 years – not just thirty, its actually 60 years – but especially under Mubarak, we didn’t have democratic life. Only in the early 2000s – in 2004 and 2005 – there was struggle against that kind of dictatorship, which made the country completely empty of politics in the organized and elaborated sense of the word. But the struggle was to deconstruct the existing system by it didn’t build another on [in its place] and it was impossible to build another one under these… we have to bring it down and start from… So we had to start quick, actually. So, I joined the party at the time and I continued there for three years. I think it was important and we did important things. For example… I’m switching between English and Arabic, is that ok?’
NP. Yes, Whatever you want. It’s fine, don’t worry.
EE. In November 2011, there were parliamentary elections and ‘at the party’ we made a election list and ‘we had two thirds for PR lists one third for individual seats so, we made a list… the party made a list called “The revolution continues” and we gathered some revolutionary groups, and we made some kind of political representation of the revolution and of the idea of it in the eyes of the people. We got around 8000 votes and that’s good for us, because we didn’t have money or famous people or anything. We got 5 seats I the parliament and that was good, in our standards. We started to build ourselves as a party. But later things… I couldn’t continue and now I’m in a new party. It’s called the Bread and Liberty Party.’ We only started it about 2 months ago and ‘we only have about 300 people or something. We’re just starting. We don’t have formal registration yet, because we are still few in number, but we are good’
NP. Why did you leave the Popular Socialist Alliance Party?
EE. First of all, remind me to send you our resignation. We prepared a resignation letter, which was supposed to be internal, but it got leaked to the press. So, ‘fine, I will send it to you’, since you can read Arabic. It states the reasons politely. Simply, the party had its problems. This party was considered as a rebuilding of the left after the revolution. There was only formal part before the revolution; Tagammu. That party was very important back in the 80s. The newspaper it published, Al-Ahali, was only second to Al-Ahram, which is the state newspaper in terms of distribution. It had no formal subscription and it would distribute about 150,000 to 200,000 copies, which is a big number for us. They had offices in many areas. As a child of 7 or 8, I saw children playing a soccer tournament to win the Khaled Mohieddin Cup. Mohieddin is the founder of Tagammu and was part of the Free Officers Movement, if you’ve heard of it. In a village...

TAPE 2

EE. …in a village, deep it the backcountry of Upper Egypt, there were children playing soccer tournament called the Khalid Mohieddin Cup and the prize was a book about socialism and the history of the nationalist movement. The Tagammu was still very present and strong in the 80s. Then in the 90s, it ‘started’ becoming the leftist arm of the regime rather than the opposition due to many and complex reasons. My generation even counted Tagammu as an enemy and not as a party that even remotely represents us. After the revolution, there had to be a restricting of the left; a new party that will unite the revolutionary left of revolution of January 25th, because there were some leftist parties that were on good terms with the oppressive regime, not out of love for the regime, but rather out of fear of the Islamists. We refused this sort of compromise.
We felt that left wing groups that took part in the revolution and weren’t scared – You see where the problem was? The reason some people were afraid to take part in the revolution was that they were worried that the Islamists would hijack it and rise to power, considering that they were the ready ‘alternative’. So, there were parts of the left, including
Tagammu, who ‘officially’ were against the revolution, for this reason. So, we founded our party at that time so it can be a rebuild of the left wing parties, of course, on a revolutionary and democratic basis that is willing to take the risk. Not just against Mubarak; even when the revolutionary forces would go out into the street to demand that the military council be dissolved, that the power be handed over and that we wanted civilian rule. All of us knew that the Islamists were the ones most prepared, when were pressuring the military council to hand over power. We were taking not this risk not because we like the Islamists; we know they are a backward thinking bunch and fascists and all that, but we knew it was a battle we had to fight. We couldn’t just keeping living under a military rule, accept the massacres it was committing and the deals it was cutting with the Islamists on the side. All this was being done at our expense. When we as a party wanted to start restructuring the left, there were many supporters that joined us. This is something that you won’t find in the official resignation letter: When we were founding the party, ‘we thought’ that these new members were the most democratic and open within the different leftist groups. There were ones from Tagammu; a large group that resigned and led by Ghaffar Shukri, who is now the leader of the party. He had strong democratic stands against the leadership of Tagammu, based on the respect for human right, which is something very important to us even in our fight against the Islamists. Although they are our political enemies, we can’t accept any human rights violations against them. And of course, we are against their crimes against human rights, whether against the Copts or against women and so on, but I can never accept human rights violations, such as torture, the state’s battle against them or in war against terror the state fought in the 90s. So, we had a new member that had come to us from Tagammu, from a group called the change movement within Tagammu, which was led by Ghaffar Shukri. Then there also members from the Socialist Renewal movement, who were groups that ‘split’ from the Revolutionary Socialists, but they were still more open. They were against the Revolutionary Socialists or the workers party, which was closed and dogmatic and believed in more openness. There were also many independent socialists, such as the social democrats and others. This combination made up the Popular Socialist Alliance Party and it was a good and ‘promising’ combination. I felt that we couldn’t reinstitute the left out of nothing. We needed to grow it with the help of more open elements within the ideological left, so that we can get organized and move toward a societal left and by that I mean the people struggling to achieve leftist goals and that coincide with the leftist agenda, but do not necessarily label themselves as leftist from an ideological standing point. So, we thought that the left has to work together to bring these people closer to it. But as time went by, internal organizational issues arouse and after the party elections, the classic leftist movement that came from Tagammu became the most prominent and it started crowding us out. Personally, and there are many like me within the party – by the way, when I resigned, I did it along with about a hundred others – I didn’t have a problem with this and we were willing to go on, even though the transitional leftist were crowding us out. I was nominated for the position of General Secretary of the party and ‘it was very close that I lost it’. ‘That was important’ not because of winning or losing, but it goes to show that the party had two strong movements. ‘If we assume’ that the ones that elected the other candidate were the traditionalists and ones that voted from me were the ones that were more modern leftist, that shows that we weren’t a minority. So, there was really no problem if we continued. The central committee was made of 130 members and I lost by five votes. There are many criteria for measuring this, but if this was one of them, then we weren’t a minority at all. The problem was and the crisis that made us leave had to do with the events of June 30th. The approach of the party and the traditionalists’ dominance over it made it clear that it wasn’t just an organizational matter, but a political stand. After June 30th crisis – and you can read this in my resignation in detail – and although we wanted it and worked toward it by organizations; we were already demonstrating and calling from his disposal two months into his term, and I still believe, despite all the threats to democracy in Egypt, which is something we can address later, the oppression we see around us and the totalitarian state we are in, that if the Islamists finished their term ruling Egypt, all traces of democracy would’ve been wiped out. So, we are now paying the price of getting rid of a grave danger, which the rule of the Muslim brotherhood. The danger we are in now is a different kind of throat, but when June 30th stated it was very clear that we have to play a big role in pressuring the current government, even though if it seemed to be one our side in the beginning – of course, it wasn’t. Do you know how June 30th came to be? June 30th was an unspoken alliance. No one sat on table together and discussed it, but it was understood that there was some sort of an alliance that was formed by the revolutionary forces and at their heart were the leftist groups and the groups that were against the rule of the Muslim Brotherhood from the beginning. Some people died because of this and the Muslim brotherhood even kidnapped some our members and tortured them at the presidential palace ands during the demonstration preceding June 30th. The Muslim Brotherhood committed crimes in many Egyptian neighborhoods and people still don’t get why they get beaten up when they go out in demonstrations. It’s because they committed crimes against these people; they would go through neighborhoods toting Kalashnikovs and fire in the streets just to terrorize. To an extent, they were punishing the society. So the unspoken alliance of June 30th included the revolutionary forces and was later joined by the state forces, the army and the supporters of Mubarak regime. In the first 6-10 moths of Morsi’s rule, the state security agencies and Mubarak’s supporters where trying to ally with him. We were the only ones that were against everyone. For example, the ministry of interior butchered people during demonstrations to please Morsi, but they failed to ally with him so they turned against him. Then they turned to the revolutionary forces, which were against Morsi from the very beginning. That’s how this unspoken alliance came to be. As for the government that came into power on July 3rd, we at the party proposed – and this was an important part of our resignation - that it was a ‘mix’, but that the state agencies and Mubarak’s supporters had the upper hand, who are oppressors and enemies of the revolution and democracy and we wanted to know what our role would be. Of course, the ‘ultra-radicals’ choose to leave immediately, go out on the street, say that this is a traitor government and an enemy of the people and that it should be brought down. Naturally, I wasn’t for this , because people have to make up their own minds about it. So, I, along with a large group of people that left, proposed that we should be a democratic and institutional opposition and not a revolutionary opposition of the current rule. We would recognize its legitimacy and that it deposed Morsi, which is a good thing. We would recognize the striking down of the Muslim Brotherhood’s constitution, which was a something very ugly, but that we would remain ‘outspoken’ about all the problems they had caused when they came into power. We would remain ‘outspoken’ for two reasons. First of all, so we can obtain as many social and democratic reforms for the people at this point. Secondly, so that we don’t leave the Muslim Brotherhood to be the only opposition on the political arena. That would be a threat to democracy and would give the
Islamists wide popular reach once more. This was the vision that I personally, with others, defended. The party on the other hand went into a mode of bootlicking the government and it was very bad. They wouldn’t speak out or make any sort of critique. Problems started to show in the performance of the government. First of all, when the Bebalwi government was formed, we demanded that we propose a program to state what was required of Bebalwi’s government. [inaudible: 11:55.6], the state stood by while the Christians in Egypt were being beaten in a disciplinary campaign that spanned the whole country and especially in southern Egypt. They claim that they are fighting terrorism and religious extremism but they just left the Christians to fend for themselves. The president didn’t even know the situation in Delga village in Al-Minya, until we, as a party wrote him a detailed letter about it and gave it to him at a meeting. We told him that this is what was happening in Egypt and that there is a village under complete control of the Muslim Brotherhood. There wasn’t a single Christian house that was left unharmed. They were made to pay Jizya, they can’t go to work and their daughters would be stripped of their clothes in the streets in front of their families as punishment for deposing Morsi. So, the Christians were ‘scapegoats’. Also, the way the Rabaa sit-ins were cleared, which should never have been in that barbaric way. So, the idea was that we wanted to e critics of the current government, because we knew that they were going to create a problems, so there needed to be a rational, institutional and democratic opposition, but that tries to fix the wrongdoings of the government or stop it. The party decided that [inaudible: 13:17.1], so it kept quite. So, we didn’t know how we could do any work anymore. Are you leaving? I’m staying a bit.
NP. I’m just going to pay my check.
EE. Mine as well?
NP. Yes.
EE. But…
NP. But, please go on.
2. This has something to do with why I left the party. After June 30th, in general, there was a struggle between the old way and the new way. ‘By the way’ , this also happened with the other parties that tried to rebuild other political parties, like the Strong Egypt Party. Strong Egypt is only an attempt to rebuild the Islamist movement and create a new form of it. There you’d find struggle between the ex-Muslim Brotherhood members and the ones that stayed with the Brotherhood. You’ll find this sort of struggle everywhere actually, and especially in the movements that are trying to rebuild themselves. This is normal; it’s like the process of labor before a movement can be born, especially after decade of oppression. of course, there many different political and organizational mixtures. The problem o June 30th was the groveling way the party was behaving toward the government. This made us feel like there wasn’t any place for us there anymore so we made the tough decision of leaving. Now we are reestablishing ourselves, ‘slowly, but surely’, I hope, in this new experiment.
1. Do you a certain standing regarding the constitution?
2. The current constitution is a problem, of course. It’s much better than the Muslim Brotherhood constitution – ‘Incomparable’, in my opinion. The situation for civil liberties is much better in it, in addition to other things as well, but there’s a danger… Remind me to send you the view of the party regarding the constitution, too. So, it does have some major issues as well, such as the situation of the military. By the way, this is part of the Muslim Brotherhood’s legacy; theirs was the first constitution to include such immunities for the military. It was normal that the military would enjoy this special position in their constitution, although their government was supposed to be an elected and civil government, in a time when . The committee of 50 wasn’t going to convene unless it was guarded by tanks, after all. So, it was normal that the army would have such ‘privileges’. But this is a problem within the constitution and that’s why I will reject it. Another problem it has is that it prepares the way for a more progressed free market economy in Egypt. It has a very cunning element; it governs the social and economic rights, but the new economic policy of the state takes a much more liberal turn. This, of course, is a conundrum. How can you protect social and economic rights in a developing and backward country like Egypt if you’re on a liberal path? These are my criticisms of it. It must be said that there many development regarding civil rights and women’s’ right and it incomparable to the previous situation. Previously, there was a huge battle regarding women’s rights. So you can’t say that this constitution is the military’s constitution, because before this version emerged from the Committee of 50, there was one that emerged from the expert committee, which is the Committee of 10. In the version of the Committee of 10, the situation of civil and women’ rights was very bad and the privileges of the army were the same and so on. So, a battle ensued within the Committee of 50, in which many democratic elements were able to obtain some of their goals, but they couldn’t change the situation regarding the privileges of the army. So, I think this constitution , in general, is a bit better, but it still contains many trap, which is why we refuse it. I’ll send you the party’s statement regarding the constitution.
1. I’m very sorry, but I need to finish up here right now.
2. Okay
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